He exists alright, just not as Mysterious Akavir would portray him.
Tosh Raka = Akatosh = Monomyth.

Oh dear lord, that's the deep stuff right there it is. That would explain why I appear to have missed this little tid bit of info. When conversations turn towards the metaphysical, I leave before I get a headache. If would care to explain in some detail how people got to that conclusion, in layman's terms at least, via PM, you'd be my new best friend.

So how does Mysterious Akavir misrepresent him?

No. Tosh Raka is as much Akatosh as Akatosh is Tiber Septim or Pelinal or Martin. In all likelihood, Tosh Raka became a myth echo of Akatosh, probably through mantling and with a little magic.

He's represented as the great Tiger Emperor of the Ka Po' Tun, who at some point in time, achieved the ability to turn into a dragon, and, quoting from 'Mysterious Akavir';




POP!


You know what that was? The sound of my brain imploding in on itself... I just can't quite comprehend this...

How is this any different from Auriel, King of the Altmer, who after having defeated his enemy's showed all Altmer -with little success-how to transcend?

It's different because it's told like a fable. Complete with a quote from Tosh Raka.
Frankly all of Mysterious Akavir reads like it's meant for children, which is why I don't take it seriously.

The lore FAQ says that all the Ka Po'tun can become dragons but Tosh Raka can become the largest dragon, coloured orange and black

The truth about Akavir:

Nerevarine and ex-hero's, exit, stage left! - Snagglepuss

It probably reads like it was written for a child because the narrative voice of the character who was writing it. I believe it was probably written by a one of the Tang Mo, as the obvious inspiration for the Tang Mo was typically childlike. http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D-gmABsTi1-k&usg=AL29H23uksslkA5zoeWW1OOjzY-J7VtoXg

But because it sounds like a fable doesn't mean it is. I consider it to be the gospel monkey truth.


No, the lore faq says that they are trying to become dragons and only Tosh Raka has succeeded. It's likely he will be the only one. Unfortunate things might happen when one dragon meets another.

Saying he succeeded to me means that he has become a dragon. Not that he has the ability to change between the form of a dragon and a Ka'Po Tun.

who cares if tosh roka or whatever is not real?!?!?!??!
i think that beth should put some more time and make tsaesci a playable race and make some npc ones and, also pale pass is an imperial fort captured by akaviri, the akaviri men invaded tamriel plus it never said the tsaesci invaded although they may ahve invaded once. during the times of Reman Cyrodil the akaviri men invaded. apparently because if you look at the talos blood quest and the draconian madstone quest in oblivion then the men invaded butr that does not mean that the tsaesci never invaded tamriel i know for a fact that they did once.

ok i'm done

sorry if you're confused or mad i'm bored and needed something to do

I've never imagined it being written by a Tang Mo, since the language used implies being written by someone who isn't Akaviri:



Plus it contradicts itself:





The first paragraph states that they literally ate the men of Akavir. Yet the latter implies that to eat means to enslave.

And then there's the most ridiculous bit:



Now how exactly did this writer manage an interview with Tosh Raka?
Since when have aspects of Akatosh taken on jumbled versions of his name anyway?
In my opinion it's far more likely that Mysterious Akavir is a collection of Akaviri myth mixed with a little fact; and that Tosh Raka is literally a representation of the Akaviri Akatosh myths.

Or, it could just be that they tried to eat them but only managed to enslave them...

Which would require a "but" wouldn't it?
As in: "They tried to eat all the dragons. But only managed to enslave the Red Dragons instead."

Well, perhaps they thought putting it in two different sentences and using different words would be self-explanatory... Of course, I don't claim to be the best at grammar...

It's been a long time since I've read it, and I hadn't noticed that, so I'll grant you that. Which does beg the interesting question of who exactly wrote it, as the writer seems intimately familiar with the land and its politics. I'm also not the first to attribute Mysterious Akavir to an Akaviri. It's a theory that is often combined with the "eating means cultural eating" thing, something that was supposedly brought about by a mistranslation by the Tamrielians (Tam Raelians? That's a scary thought). Which is a nice idea, even if wrong.


No, the latter implies that they enslaved the dragons, possbly for the purposes of eating them. And they were used as warmounts, after all. But I think Michael has confirmed that eating means eating.


It might not be an interview so much as a summation of belief. Note that it's written in the present tense:

"First," Tosh Raka says, "is that we kill all the vampire snakes." Then the Tiger-Dragon Emperor wants to invade Tamriel.

"First," Tiber Septim says, "I want to conquer Hammerfall." Then he wants to move on to Morrowind.


It's not so different as Tiber Septim claiming to be an Atmoran despite the fact that the flow of Atmoran immigrants stopped thousands of years ago. Or - and this is related to the previous point - claiming Ysmir to be "the Nordic aspect of Talos". Mantling requires one to take roles in order to gain power, and taking a name of power and personalising it would certainly help. It's very similar to the way some western mystery traditions and magickal practices use drama as a means to invoke gods into themselves. Which is a hella fun way to do it.


You got it.

Thinking about the who actually wrote it, you do get the sense through the language used that the person is not Akaviri.
But then, if they are not, how did they get the information about Akavir?

Were there explorations of Akavir by Tamreilic peoples that I have not read about?

Because, from my knowledge, the people of Tamreil know very little about Akavir itself as a continent, I would think much less about the races.

This thread has gone WAAAAY off topic, from a simple question of "What do the Tsaecsi look like?" to a full-blown discussion about the validity of "Mysterious Akavir".

Sources have been provided and the question answered. There's nothing else to discuss.

This is making my feeble unlorebuff brain hurt but i shall become one of your kind one day, and thanks for le akavir explanation.

I take it that I am partially to blame for the "cultural eating" theory, or at least for it receiving wider recognition. The article was, at the time, an attempt to apologize a rather painful inconsistency and the principles of linguistic prototypicity lent themselves well for a plausible explanation.

The Snake like residents at Akavir would like pretty much like http://kyning.fm.interia.pl/akaviri.png i recon.

For how the Akaviri men looked, i bet they would be simulair to the human like races on Tamriel.

I imagine the same, except with a more humanoid looking head.

Perhaps, you never know.

Other beast races like Argonians and Khajiit don't really have a humanoid head either, so i guess they could well have snake heads in Akavir.