So the Akaviri invasion included Akaviri Humans...

Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:06 pm

Where did I say it was far fetched? I only stated that Mysterious Akavir is far from a reliable source to use for descriptions on conditions in Akavir. Its a good read, yes, but anywhere near reliable? No.


Why isn't it reliable?
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u gone see
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:26 am

Why isn't it reliable?

Perhaps because the only possible sources I can think of would be from a survivor from Uriel V's failed invasion or being told of it by the Tsaesci.
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Miguel
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:08 pm

Why isn't it reliable?


Who was the author?
When was it written?
What were the sources?

It reads very much like the Author sat in a pub, listening to, and writing down the tales of various sailors on a mysterious land he had never visited, or piecing it together from Reman era myths and legends. A better report on the conditions on Akavir is "Disaster at Ionith".
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Andrew Perry
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:44 pm

I've read "Disaster at Ionith" but it doesn't really describe any physical appearance?
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emily grieve
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:42 pm

I've read "Disaster at Ionith" but it doesn't really describe any physical appearance?


Last Year in the First Era suggests the form of the Akaviri. Also "origins of the fighters guild"
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STEVI INQUE
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:50 pm

People say the Tsaesci mounted and that means they aren't serpents. We still don't know what they mounted.

I personally suspect there is an "Asian" race of humans (the Tsaescii have Japanese weapons/armor) and a golden serpent race. Both are under the same Empire.

Akavir is to the east. We all know that the farther east you go on Tamriel, the weirder things get. Morrowind and Black Marsh are the eastern most provinces on Tamriel. I get the feeling that Akavir will be even less Earth-like.
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Mark Churchman
 
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Post » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:23 am

Last Year in the First Era suggests the form of the Akaviri. Also "origins of the fighters guild"

But the Last Year series is basically historical fiction or a dramatized history that was also incorrect about the Akaviri not using shields. As for History of the Fighters Guild, it only says they couldn't wear certain armor, which could mean any number of things. Because I'm fairly certain that the Akaviri did have armor of their own.
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Josee Leach
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:46 pm

Someone used the skeletal remains of "Akaviri" as evidence of their form earlier.

Now, I'm guessing this is during Pale Pass exploration?

Could I point out, that I've not ONCE seen Khajiit or Argonian skeletal remains depicted in the game. This doesn't mean that they don't exist (obviously) nor does it mean that they're immortal (obviously).
The reason I bring this up, is because I'm trying to understand at what point does graphical depictions in game stop and start relating to what the lore states as truth/fact/whatever?

Because Alduins wall could easily be totally discounted on that basis alone IMO.
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Jessica Raven
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:28 pm

The Kahjiit and Argonian can vary greatly within their species. Why not Tsaescii? Just thought of this. Sounds very unlikely but I thought I might bring it up as a springboard for other ideas.
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Nathan Risch
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:20 pm

Someone used the skeletal remains of "Akaviri" as evidence of their form earlier.

Now, I'm guessing this is during Pale Pass exploration?

Could I point out, that I've not ONCE seen Khajiit or Argonian skeletal remains depicted in the game. This doesn't mean that they don't exist (obviously) nor does it mean that they're immortal (obviously).
The reason I bring this up, is because I'm trying to understand at what point does graphical depictions in game stop and start relating to what the lore states as truth/fact/whatever?

Because Alduins wall could easily be totally discounted on that basis alone IMO.


Yeah, Orc skulls would be pretty scary lookin. I've had this complaint since Oblivion came out.
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James Potter
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:59 pm

The Kahjiit and Argonian can vary greatly within their species. Why not Tsaescii? Just thought of this. Sounds very unlikely but I thought I might bring it up as a springboard for other ideas.


Interesting concept.
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Assumptah George
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:39 pm

I'm sure I read an in game book in one of the games once describing the Tsaesci as humanoid with snake-like features and scales.
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kyle pinchen
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:07 am

I'm sure I read an in game book in one of the games once describing the Tsaesci as humanoid with snake-like features and scales.


That sounds like Mysterious Akavir.
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Heather Stewart
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:08 pm

When Alduin's Wall was first released, the three figues behind Dovahkiin were thought of as Alessia, Reman and Tiber Septim. I'm inclined to believe Esbern just has it wrong.
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Star Dunkels Macmillan
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:37 pm

Look at this, pretty handy.
http://media1.gameinformer.com/images/site/pages/esv/index.html?es=5#

They're definitely blades. But they could just as easily be Delphine, Esbern and a follower for all that wall shows.
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Jennifer Munroe
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:58 pm

There's always the possibility that the Taeseci are bipedal and lack tails, and that the Reman Dynasty historical fiction books took liberties from how they believed the Taeseci looked like at the time. The books were wrong about the Akaviri not using shields, they could be wrong about them having the lower half of a snake. This would explain why the Akaviri skeletons were humanoid, why the messengers had legs, why they're depicted as men by the Nords, and how the Taeseci were able to interbreed with the Imperials.

Or, here's a thought: there is no publishing date anywhere on Mysterious Akavir, so it's possible, or judging by the evidence almost certain, that there were men in Akavir in the First Era, and they participated in the invasion alongside the Tsaesci. It was a human regiment at Pale Pass and the human Akaviri dragon hunters (who wore armor, whivh is something the Tsaesci don't do) put themselves on Alduin's Wall instead of caring about being multicultural and including their Tsaesci allies/masters.
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Assumptah George
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:57 pm

Or, here's a thought: there is no publishing date anywhere on Mysterious Akavir, so it's possible, or judging by the evidence almost certain, that there were men in Akavir in the First Era, and they participated in the invasion alongside the Tsaesci. It was a human regiment at Pale Pass and the human Akaviri dragon hunters (who wore armor, whivh is something the Tsaesci don't do) put themselves on Alduin's Wall instead of caring about being multicultural and including their Tsaesci allies/masters.

Yes, that's a possibility.
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Marcia Renton
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:06 am

When you enter Sky something Temple with the blades, there is a seal that needs to be activated with your blood. The door there doesn't look quite human to me. I reckon it's the face of Tseasci.

Thoughts?
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Taylor Tifany
 
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Post » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:09 am

Someone used the skeletal remains of "Akaviri" as evidence of their form earlier.

Now, I'm guessing this is during Pale Pass exploration?

Could I point out, that I've not ONCE seen Khajiit or Argonian skeletal remains depicted in the game. This doesn't mean that they don't exist (obviously) nor does it mean that they're immortal (obviously).
The reason I bring this up, is because I'm trying to understand at what point does graphical depictions in game stop and start relating to what the lore states as truth/fact/whatever?

Because Alduins wall could easily be totally discounted on that basis alone IMO.


This is pretty crazy logic. I've never seen Khajiit or Argonian skeletons in-game, but I HAVE seen Akaviri skeletons in-game. Thus, the Akaviri skeletons are refuted? I don't follow the thinking...

When Alduin's Wall was first released, the three figues behind Dovahkiin were thought of as Alessia, Reman and Tiber Septim. I'm inclined to believe Esbern just has it wrong.


"When we were shown an asset without context, forum people had a theory. When a game was released that explicitly cleared it up, the forum theory is still better"
This is like saying the slightly absurd misheard English lyrics for the Dovahkiin song are correct, because people posted about them on the forums before the real Dragon Language lyrics were released, and also because they are vaguely and subjectively better.

Edit: And by the way the three figures are three actual people who are present in Skyrim: Felldir the Old, Gormlaith Golden-Hilt, and Hakon One-Eye. Oh, unless I guess you mean the ones in Blades armour. Dunno why Alessia would wear Blades armour...

When you enter Sky something Temple with the blades, there is a seal that needs to be activated with your blood. The door there doesn't look quite human to me. I reckon it's the face of Tseasci.

Thoughts?


It's pretty strongly implied in dialogue that that is Reman Cyrodiil. Esbern is going on about 'look how they revered Reman!' at the time.
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Jake Easom
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:37 pm

I don't see how it's at all far-fetched that the "Snakemen" description is someone's flight of fancy.

Look at medieval depictions of Jews and Muslims. Descriptions abound of them with red eyes, forked tongues, horns, etc. Ignorant, hateful people will believe things, and turning your enemy into a monster is probably the oldest trick in the propaganda book.
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Vera Maslar
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:44 pm

I don't see how it's at all far-fetched that the "Snakemen" description is someone's flight of fancy.

Look at medieval depictions of Jews and Muslims. Descriptions abound of them with red eyes, forked tongues, horns, etc. Ignorant, hateful people will believe things, and turning your enemy into a monster is probably the oldest trick in the propaganda book.

Yeah, but....

Orcs

Argonians

Khajiit

Also: word of god says that the Tsaesci were, at least at one point, supposed to be literal immortal vampire snake men.
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Alexis Estrada
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:42 pm

My point is, that the depiction of the Akaviri skeletal remains aren't necessarily accurate.

In Oblivion, a Skeleton was a Skeleton regardless of what race it was supposed to be from.

To my mind, it makes sense that the Tsaeseci are Argonian like in appearance.
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Yung Prince
 
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Post » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:43 pm

I'm leaning on two theories, not sure which one to support more. The first would be that Tsaesci are like Yuan-Ti Purebloods from D&D: having humanoid shaped bodies but having various snakelike features, and that they wore the armor that is associated with the Blades. The second is that the Akaviri invasion was done with both Tsaesci and Akaviri men, and the Akaviri men wore the Akaviri armor.

Edit: Come to think of it, the Akaviri men had plenty of time between invading and the end of the First Era to mix with Imperials to the point at which they're the same and only the Tsaesci would be recognized as "Akaviri". If they did have the lower halves of snakes, it would pretty much rule out interbreeding with Imperials like the Men could do, but they could transmit their vampirism, giving others, like the first Blades, similar eyes and lifespans.
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Tom
 
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Post » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:32 am

My point is, that the depiction of the Akaviri skeletal remains aren't necessarily accurate.

In Oblivion, a Skeleton was a Skeleton regardless of what race it was supposed to be from.

To my mind, it makes sense that the Tsaeseci are Argonian like in appearance.


Except that, as you specifically pointed out, none of those other skeletons is identified as Khajiit or Argonian. The Akaviri skeletons (and ghosts) are explicitly identified as such. Once again: muddled logic, jumping through hoops, Occam's Razor.
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Sasha Brown
 
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Post » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:21 am

Except that, as you specifically pointed out, none of those other skeletons is identified as Khajiit or Argonian. The Akaviri skeletons (and ghosts) are explicitly identified as such. Once again: muddled logic, jumping through hoops, Occam's Razor.


So being that there are no skeletal remains of Khajiit, Orc or Argonian origin, should I deduce that they're either phantoms or immortal?
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mishionary
 
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