All I ever knew was that the Aldmeri came up, beat the Empire, and signed the Concordat. Then I read a book that came off the Imperial Library site (or something), and I got a clearer understanding.

The Aldmeri succeeded in claiming Valenwood and Elsweyr, but not by military force - only a form of persuasion and 'trickery' if you will. Sure, they stormed through Cyrodiil and Hammerfell (as far as I know), but then again - the Empire was weakened to begin with.

Practically defeated, the battered Imperial Legion's managed to retake Cyrodiil. Not only that, the Redguards managed to reclaim their state of Hammerfell alone. The Empire came back from being defeated, to defeating the Aldmeri Dominion and retaking their capital. The Redguards even managed to defeat the Aldmeri.

I understand the Empire was to worn out to keep on fighting... but the Aldmeri Dominion had to be as tired I am quite sure.

All I'm saying is that I don't think the Dominion is as strong as we think. There only real success was taking Valenwood and Elsweyr, which was not by military means; the other success was taking Cyrodiil and pushing into Hammerfell, which was only possible cause the Empire was weak and unprepared. When it comes down to it, I believe the Empire can and will defeat the Dominion, no arguments.

True enough. Their military might doesnt seem to be anything to write home about, but this could be due to being vastly outnumbered in terms of troops. But what the Dominion lacks in military power it makes up for in indirect subversive action and aggressive diplomacy.
Oh, and the Altmeri navy is not to be triffled with

The empire is afraid of the Thalmor, and its emperors a puppet to Thalmori will thanks to the concordat. They don't need the territory.

There is no proof that the Empire is any more afraid of the Dominion than the Dominion is of it.
Define puppet.

But it's nothing compared to the Redguards who either live on the sea or in the port cities and would annihilate any type of sea offensive.

The above is not paticularly true, note it was a sea battle won by the Empire that brought the death blow to Hammerfells independence from Tibers Empire.

I'm not saying the Thalmor aren't afraid. And as things stand the empire is done for ( Just like the entire Mundus ). The Concordat is all that the Thalmor need. Talos worship outlawed, and the right for them to root it out within the empire itself.

Raga make fine sailors, for sure, but I don't think they have any ships of the line that can go hull-to-hull with a fully-stocked Dominion flotilla.

The ban on Talos worship is just going to be temporary and the Thalmor know it. They say themselves that there will be a second great war. The ban is mostly to cause discontent within the Empire so that maybe the second war is easier, but there's no way of knowing how effective it is in that sense.

Amusing, but I doubt the Empire is afraid of the Thalmor. Titus was able to fight back and bring the Golden rods to their knees. Honestly, the Empire should of wiped out the Thalmor by starting off with trickery and contagion and skillful deception, then finish them off with a glorious subjugation after the Thalmor were too weak and misguided to even fight back properly. I wept with joy when Lord Naarifin was strung up the White-Gold Tower for the people to see. A DLC should be made about the Thalmor and their plan to destroy Nirn itself! Then we can have cruxifiction animations and torture mini-games, like cooking and weapon forging, but taken to a whole new level!

Ehhh, I think torture mini-games might be taking it a bit far...

But other than that, I agree. To me, it made little sense for the Empire to have agreed to the Concordat when the Empire had destroyed the Aldmeri field army. At the very least, an armistace or mutual peace would have been within the Empires political and military grasp in my opinion.

It is a rated M game. If children performing Black Sacraments, tortured Dark Brotherhood prisoners and decapitations is not "too far", then I am not sure what is.

Anyways, on topic: People say a prolonged war would result in the destruction of the Empire. Yet, the weak and debilitated Dominion has not crushed an Independent Hammerfell, and even though the Battle of the Red Ring was a sort of victory for the Empire with it losing a couple of legions and more than half of the army, Naarifin's army was entirely obliterated.

In all honesty, the way it seems to me is that the Aldmeri Dominion is obviously overconfident just as the bulk of Altmer that makes up its forces, while the Empire is practically led by fears or whatever the hell they consider insecurities. I was under the impression that the Empire has a major inferiority complex at that point.

Yes, the Empire was smaller in numbers than the Dominion, but the thing is that the Civil War would not have happened if the treaty was not signed. Yes, they might have lost, but they also might have won, and they would've had Skyrim's 100% support. Indeed, the Empire lost half its army. But Lord Naarifin's entire army was destroyed. It doesn't matter if continuing the war would've resulted in the empire losing another half of its remainder. The Civil War in Skyrim pretty much did that.

As you said, they could of had a military and political grasp on the situation. The Thalmor indeed achieved some of this through their cunning, and their tactics all throughout the war were based on hitting their own chests and puffing themselves up to strike fear in the hearts of their enemies, which is exactly what the Empire should have done, in my opinion.

That is why the Thalmor pretty much "crushed" everyone everywhere. Why they never sued for peace or a truce. Why they hit high profile targets. Etc. They wanted the Empire to think they were so strong and tough so that the Empire would just fall over. So, when the Empire achieved their first major victory and enough to put themselves at the bargaining table, they thought they were lucky to catch a break.

It truly makes no sense at all. If the Empire did what they should have done, they could of perhaps achieved even Hammefell's support along with Skyrim's and bring down the Thalmor and kick their golden hides all the way back to the Summerset Isles, and then proceed to a glorious genocide against them( ).

The ban's there for more then just causing discontent, everyone who stops his worship of Talos is one less worshipper to get rid off. The Thalmor will ofcourse expect the empire to wage war against them again, when things run out of hand with rebelling Talos worshippers, but the Thalmor themselves have no need to conquer any empire territory as it stands now.

I'd have to agree with everything you said W&V, except the torture mini-game

Your no fun ...

The Empire should have kept the war going the whole time. Hammerfell wanted to continue fighting (and they did, and won regardless) as did Skyrim. The Thalmor would have been eventually driven back by the Empire and lost. The Empire at the time though is being led by incompetent rulers who clearly have no faith in their own soldiers and officers to win.

Agreed.

Bold: Case in point; Titus Mede II, the apes in the High Council who were plagued by petty infighting. After the last Septim was killed, everything went to hell.

Anyone think a resurrected Potema would put things in place? By rights and blood, she is a Septim.

I like to bring this up when talking of the Empire's future:

"The Emperor is getting old. Don't know how much longer he'll hang on. So is the whole Empire, for that matter. Getting old, that is. The Emperor and the legions have held the Empire together for hundreds of years. It's been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it's time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I'm old. Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty."

I don't see the Cyrodiilic Empire surviving the next war and personally I think it's time for the Second Empire of the Nords or a Raga Republic.

If you want a Septim, why not look to Elysana? The Septim's were said to be the last rulers of Wayrest.

I like to bring this up when talking of the Empire's future:

"The Emperor is getting old. Don't know how much longer he'll hang on. So is the whole Empire, for that matter. Getting old, that is. The Emperor and the legions have held the Empire together for hundreds of years. It's been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it's time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I'm old. Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty."

I don't see the Cyrodiilic Empire surviving the next war and personally I think it's time for the Second Empire of the Nords or a Raga Republic.

Here here. The Empires time has come to its end. Time for someone else to have some time in the sun. That doens't change the fact though there was really no good reason for the Empire to have been so heavily stomped the Dominion.

I think people greatly overestimate the Altmer's naval capabilities. With no Maormer to deal with, and a few centuries of peace with the local provinces, they've not really needed an uber powerful fleet. Yes the Great War had some naval clashes, but that's about it.

The Dominion is strong, make no mistake. They have control of Summerset, Valenwood, and Elsweyr (as a protectorate).


However they are not strong enough to conquer all of Skyrim, High-Rock, Cyrodiil, and Hammerfell by themselves. Not without serious political manipulation. The Thalmor are fully aware of this. Which is why they have devoted their efforts at the moment to doing what they do best: subterfuge.

Attempting to prolong Skyrim's Civil War as long as possible is one example. No doubt they are performing similar acts of intrigue in the other provinces.

If there is another Great War, what is going to determine how powerful the Dominion are is whether or not Skyrim, Hammerfell, and the Empire can sort their differences enough to solidly challenge the Dominion.

Man does best when divided. It when all bets are off that Empire uniting/building hero's are born. The Thalmor are technically only ensuring their demise by attempting to drive the Empire of man apart.

The way I see it, Titus Mede could have easily crushed the Dominion.

The Dominion HAD to be weakened. It is evident, as why else would they agree to a short-term peace? If they were stronger, I am sure they would have kept on their pace to destroy the Empire.

The Empire, in my opinion, could have easily taken down the Dominion. Take Valenwood, annex the isolated Elsweyr, and then move onto 'Alinor' (Summerset Isles) - that is if the Aldmeri did not accept peace.


Ulfric (supposedly) rose up against the Empire because of the ban on Talos Worship. At this point, the Emperor should have said "Okay Nords, we'll break the Concordat, but you'll need to come help us in the fight against the Aldmeri." The Empire, along with the 'would-be' Stormcloaks, partnered with the Redguards and the still-loyal Highrock and the remaining Legions could have easily crushed the Aldmeri.

Instead, the Emperor decides to keep a peace treaty with a certain enemy, whereas he could have broke the Concordat to gain a certain ally (the Stormcloaks).

Right. Because a prolonged war between the Empire and Skyrim following independence is good for resisting a foreign power?

"Man" does not do "best" when driven apart. They can do fine IF there is some sort of alliance made to resist the Thalmor. Which will involve 1. Hammerfell putting its issue with the Empire aside and 2. Skyrim and the Empire actually resolving their conflict and not continuing it.


Not necessarily, fighting a defensive war on your own soil is much easier than fighting an offensive one.

The Dominion still had the army of Lady Arannelya in Hammerfell which they could call back. Elsweyr was also likely relatively untapped in terms of the forces it could bring up.

No doubt Mede could have sued for much better peace terms if he had stopped to consider things. However, taking the war to the Dominion and destroying them? Unlikely in my opinion.

True/.



EDIT: Realistically, as in real-world terms, I don't see Bethesda destroying the Empire and replacing Tamriel's 'government' with the Aldmeri. I just don't think they would.