wait... so Alduin is the greatest subgradient of Aka?

Yay, another one.

These gods are cool.

"I am no salmon!” + Dagon Silhouette. I want that on a t-shirt!

A link to the Hahd and Nahd, Leaping-Demon and Greedy-Man's past hoarding?

I've enjoyed these too, I quite like seeing Dagon as something else then "chaotic evil", even if it is just an exaggerated story.

EDIT: Oh and can someone clarify who Aka-Tusk is a name (mantle?) for?

Wouldn't it be Akatosh? In the third last paragraph it describes how he "held time" when he told the other two to wait before fighting the Nord guy. Also he mentioned that Alduin was shed from him by heaven, indicating that they were part of the same being at one time but are not anymore (ie-Alduin is his "son").

Sort of. Akatosh wasn't around yet. Just Auri-El, except now he's wearing torn jeans, no shirt and an electric guitar shaped like an axe. Speaking of which:


When I hear it in game it doesn't make sense. I think it's really the mater of phrasing that matters. A "shed aspect" works infinitely better then "father" or "son". These really are too rigid.

The Dragons assumed that we are idiots, and tried to explain the relation in terms that they presumed we feeble, womb-issue mortals would understand. It's just that being semi-divine expressions of the relentless crawl of time, their grasp of concepts like familial bonds (such as those between fathers and sons) is a tad wonky.

Akatosh has always been. Remember Maruhkati Selective.

I'm guessing this occurred before the point where Akatosh had always been around forever, hence "Aka-tusk."

Why are all three Tiber Septim, Zurin Arctus and the Underking Talos? They share the same oversoul as do these four posters. Or perhaps Elk is simply trying to mantle Kirkbride. Make posts like MK, until MK makes posts like you.

Only Shor is allowed to have 3 accounts at a time bent on taking over the world. Every other soul is only allowed one, and if they are caught with more, they are banned from the Aurbis.

That was... unexpected. I liked the clarification and definitley a good read.
I love it when Dagon swears. I had to laugh at the nord beeing annoyed by the Gods talking stuff he does not understand.

I am not a Lore buff at all, but does this mean Atmora was, in the second era, reigned by a Giant?

Read some of it, not all, but that art at the end is awesome!

Atmora...hmmm.....

*cough* um, yes, right *shoves [redacted] and [obscured] under a mountain*

Unless I'm severely misreading the picture, yes

And Alkosh. And other aspects.

Alessia didn't make "Akatosh" up. His personality and goals are what she changed, the Khajiit Alkosh and the Akaviri Tosh Raka show the name itself is very old. And considering "Akatosh" created dragons are are built to dominate and rule tyrannically over everyone they can, I doubt they're really the same.

I assume Big Pappa (spelling?) is one of those "other aspects"? Just checkin'

They played god-kings for a span, walked the good earth in giant-form wreaking havoc and starting mirror wars alike the gods of the Dawn. They were what can be called with rights a pantheon of eight completely human gods without any elven influences what so ever. As they intended.

But what of it?


All very well but doesn't change much.

Akatosh | Auri-El | Alkosh | Tall Papa | Alduin they're all cultural interpretations of the same. Akatosh came later, much later then the others. This means that any stories involving Akatosh before Allesia are reinterpretation featuring Akatosh-with-another-name.


Really wish Bethesda the Dragons didn't.

Shezzar and the Divines muddles it up a bit, indicating that the name Akatosh is older than the current iteration of him.

Aka = Dragon. I see nothing wrong with using it to refer to the Dragon God of Time, even when in relation to aspects that weren't created by Allesia. Besides which, I think Akatosh is a cool name. Better than Auri-El*, anyway. Tosh Raka is too associated with Akavir, killing Tsaesci, and eventual invasion of Tamriel, while Alduin is too associated with the end of the world, to use those names outside of those functions... IMO.

* Slight aside.. don't know why, but whenever I see "Auri-El" I imagine a bishy anime dude with long silvery-gray hair, outfit, and eyes. I guess it's one of those 'what popped into my head when I first heard the name, and now is forever associated in my mind' things.

It doesn't matter when speaking generally but it does matter when speaking in a historical context. For example it'd be strange to have merethic Nords talk about Akatosh. Or have myths from that era in which Akatosh shows up (Aka-Tusk on the other hand, not a problem).

But other then that Auri-El is an elven rendition. A bishy anime dude wouldn't be out of place.

Not really in my opinion.
As I understand it, a dragonbreak is meddling with time. A sort of retcon, only done in-universe.
The Selectives danced on the tower causing the middle dawn and Akatosh was born.
Only after that event, he had always already existed. Because a retcon affects the past as well as the point onwards from when it happens.

That it decidedly is not. While the Dragon Break has often been joked about as being the ultimate retcon device, this is not the case. There is no example in which the Dragon Break has been used to for retcon (which is not the same as extending a running story, mind you).

There have been four periods in the history of Tamriel during which time became uncertain. These are The Dawn Era, the Dragon Break (the one caused by the Selectives), The Apotheosis of the Tribunal and The Warp of the West. For all but the break caused by the Selectives we know that gods were walking mundus. Be it the Aedra, the Tribunal or Eight times the Brass God. From the Nu-Mantia Intercept we know that each god controls the ordering of events as they happen. The book "Warp in the West" provides several examples of what that might look like. Basically, when the gods take conflicting decisions about how events should occur in the world right now, it splits in two. One half follows the decision of one god, the other the decision of the other. When their control lapses both alternatives are merged back again into one. Note the similarity in confusion and impossible movements between as seen in the aftermath of the Warp in the West and the Dawn Era itself. As far as the Tribunal is concerned, the also Sermons note that Vivec had his feet cut off and replaced by feet made from Oblivion so to avoid harming the good earth. Implying that he gave up his control over time.

This paints a pattern. Gods walking Mundus, causes the Dragon break. With no other known mechanism to cause a Dragon Break we can only assume that during the Dragon Break caused by the Selective there were gods walking Mundus. And what other gods then the Selective itself? Their intent was to remove the Merish aspects of Akatosh, something they could not. Then what else to do but to replace the divines with pure-blooded-human gods? What else to do but assume control over time, lest that Altmeri lizard does it?

---

I suppose I should also make the argument that a Dragon Break can not change the past in Tamriel. I can not make a conclusive argument here other then that it has never happen. The rather famous example, Vivec having always been a god does not make sense. Had this been true, had the past indeed been changed we would not know about a mortal Vivec.

Fascinating, thanks

But still, a dragon break could conceivably affect things from before the break itself occured.
Did Vivec not rewrite time that way so he could avoid/change/ retcon killing Nerevar?

The accounts of the battle at Red Mountain were intentionally written without one true series of events in mind and...

"He was not born a god. His destiny did not lead him to this crime. He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator. Vivec wrote this."

... so I don't think he did.

Also I edited my post slightly. Added an argument against changing the past.

Yes, but I thought the whole mystery was that Vivec the god did not kill Nerevar, but Vivec the man did.
Forgot where I got that one from.

Probably the same source where I got that the Tribunal changed history after their ascension.

I still think the idea that a dragonbreak can change things from before it happened is somewhat elegant and can explain some things.

Edit: I mean mystery in the religious sense, not the modern meaning of riddle.

I've always been under the impression that a break means that the past changes and does not change simul.. Um, coterminously? As in: Vivec was a mortal and has always been a god. I take your point about the Tribunal not meddling with the past, but were the Marukhati so restrained?