So by your logic the NCR is gonna kick off another nuclear war, right? Caesar has cherry picked what he wants to emulate, not carbon copy the entire Roman empire.

uh-hello, if CL is going to emulate the original roman empire, that is what's going to happen, sheesh

i do not know, perhaps they need to read up on what happened to the original roman empire, in-fighting then ultimately it got broken up into what it is today

i'm just saying, if you conquer a large area and intend to rule it, you are going to have problems with an empire-styled rule, like the original roman empire, NCR=America version II.

and listen to Marcus in Jacobstown, CL follows Ceasar, not his ideals/what he has "cherry picked"

i'm just gonna stop arguing with you all for now

my point is:CL is gonna get in trouble due to it's policy on conquest and slavery.
and Marcus is a realist unlike all those who support the Legion.

1) i do not care about the NCR or Legion

2) i was being realistic, even house thinks that CL is going to crumble after Caesar's death.

We do see quite a lot of them. Poorly clothed and labouring with heavy loads around the Fort. We also know they tend to kill them quite often in the 'arena' even though they know that the slaves don't put up much of a fight. I also feel fairly sure that Boone killing his wife rather than let the Legion own her as a slave kinda seals the deal for me. Doesn't Caesar himself call the Legion, 'Nomads' or something similar? I'm not too sure that any 'Legion civilisation' actually exists?

Oh well that svcks, so for all we know its just another ruined city? Sort of like Boulder city but with Bull flags, people on crosses and some spikes with skulls on them? lol

The slaves you fought in the arena are the bad ones, you know, the ones that try to escape or kill the masters.


We can't say anything about Flagstaff because A.) We don't know whats canon in the Van Buren documents B.) We don't even hear much (or any) of Flagstaff in New Vegas.

Yep.

And whoever said Caesar was a nut job is very wrong. Caesar is a genius. Look what he had done, look at the Empire he has formed. He was close to being killed by some savage tribals but instead he turned them into one of the strongest forces in the entire US Wasteland. Caesar is far from a nut job.

Personally dispite House's predictions I don't think the legion would just collapse if Caesar died. They have too many effective rulers who could take his place including Vulpes, Lucius, and to some extent Lanius though he really should be limited to serving as a military commander.

If endings are anything to go by (Which they are) Lanius is a capable leader, albeit a far more brutal one.



You're not very good at arguing are you?

You dont quite understand how to argue...?

NCR has far better ideals than Ceasers legion... Ceaser is a hypocrite and i dont like supporting hypocrites. Not to mention he loves to contradict himself.

Because Marcus is a know-it-all prophet? Sorry if this might shatter your dreams, but he's not.

This is funny since supporting the Legion tends to require believing Caesar is a know-it-all prophet. He's clearly a more astute observer than Marcus though because y'know he said Hegelian dialectics. And only really smart people can say stuff like that. And if you're really smart you can be sure that your band of r@ping, murdering, fanatical slavers who reject advanced technology and societal progress (how could you advocate changing a society created by a living God?) and whose survival and success is overwhelmingly dependent on the leadership qualities of a single man is definitely the best choice in the long run for the Wasteland.

After all the post-war world needs a fresh start not decadent cultures like the NCR who base themselves off aspects of failed civilizations from the old world. That's an obviously flawed approach. Now go learn to speak Latin and get dressed properly. It's not like pants are practical garments or anything.

Arcade: "What a load of Brahmin [censored]! Can you believe that guy?"

* Player (Option 1; requires INT 8): "I don't think either of us can fully understand what he and the tribes have gone through."

o Arcade: "A fair point, but from the perspective of someone west of the Colorado, the man is clearly out of his mind. Maybe he didn't intend for things to wind up this way, but that doesn't mean he needs to perpetuate this bizarre anachronistic myth. And it doesn't mean that we should sit by and nod our heads at every absurd faux-Roman casus belli he can dream up. He's a tyrant. The bad kind. And there's no way we're letting him take Hoover Dam."

* Player (Option 2): "Who, Caesar?"

o Arcade: "Of course, Caesar! You can hardly even hold his men responsible, given how they're practically raised to worship him as a living deity. What's the point of surviving the war? Why did the founders of the Followers crawl their way out of vaults to bring knowledge back to the wasteland? So we could act like the last two thousand years didn't happen? Play dress up so we can fight ancient wars all over again? No way is he getting away with this. I'm not letting it happen. You're not letting it happen."

* Player (Option 3): "He seemed pretty smart to me."

o Arcade: "Being "smart" doesn't matter if you're insane. Everything makes sense to Caesar because he's twisted everything to his world view. He's Caesar reincarnated, the NCR is the corrupt Roman senate. I wouldn't be surprised if he thought the Colorado River were the new Rubicon. He abdicates responsibility to a myth of historical inevitability. But he's not Caesar. This isn't Rome. And he isn't going to get away with this."

* Player (Option 4): "He's a madman. What did you expect?"

o Arcade: "Well, yeah! Right. What did I expect? The man's a megalomaniac. He acts like this is some pre-ordained cycle we're returning to. Of all the people who could learn from our past mistakes, he goes and throws all of our knowledge off of a cliff. Instead of trying to learn from the past, he re-creates it, runs back over the same old barren ground."

Sadly, there's a pretty awesome bit of "Fridge Logic" if you actually know what Hegelian Dialectics is. This is probably something that goes over the heads of anyone who doesn't work in academia but those people who actually DO (such as myself) get a HUGE kick out of Caesar's dialogue. It's not that he doesn't know what he's talking about, it's that he knows what he's talking about and he's still talking [censored]. The whole thing about NCR being a corrupt Republic and Caesar reforming it by conquering it like Caesar did Rome is pretty much exactly NOT how it works. Sort of like how people misunderstand Nietzsche "It's all about no morality." instead of "actually, it's about people creating their own moralities that they abide by intensely due to their own enlightened moral sense." Caesar is giving a bunch of academic jargon that is meant to sound cool but is pretty much substance-less.

The argument of what would happen if Caesar died is pointless because if they could defeat the NCR at the dam then Caesar would be able to achieve the synthesis that he wants. If they lose at the dam then either they would retreat and just focus on their states, or Caesar's power base would breakdown.

The synthesis never is mentioned. Caesar just wants to conquer his homeland.

Amusingly, the Courier is correct that Caesar CAN'T conquer NCR without losing the East anyway.

The synthesis never is mentioned. Caesar just wants to conquer his homeland.

Amusingly, the Courier is correct that Caesar CAN'T conquer NCR without losing the East anyway.

And where exactly is that stated in any of the endings? Right, thought so.

Mmkay. The Courier is in fact fallible, and is likely just as wrong as House or Marcus. No matter how you phrase it speculation will never amount to fact.

At the ending where it's a speech option for pointing out the blindingly obvious.

I'm sorry, but it's in the game.