Judging by how little we know about the situation in the East, I can't say anything that wouldn't be misconstrued as wanton speculation or wishful thinking. From what I gleaned about what little dialogue there is on the subject, it sounds like Caesar has the entire state of Arizona locked down or at least most of it anyway. This is reinforced by the fact that Flagstaff is his capital.

But as I said we actually know very, very little about how secure Caesar's eastern holdings are. I'll admit him wanting to take the dam simply to destroy it or whatever is a waste of manpower, but it's not like he can walk away at this point. If he just turned his back on the dam and allowed the NCR to recuperate/reinforce their position he'd be opening himself up in a huge way from a strategic standpoint.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBAHzsqBmCA&feature=related

I'm aware that it's in the game, but it doesn't make it anymore factual.

Yes, so unless you have any facts that contradict what's said in game where the Courier talks to the SECOND IN COMMAND OF THE LEGION about the situation and convinces him (presuming that he would know the situation if anyone), it's pretty safe to say it's fact.

Do you have any rebuttal to the actual argument? At all?

In the Legion ending(s) this was a non-existent issue. If that really was the case I'm sure we'd have heard about it.

I wonder if people get this heated on the John Madden boards.

ZONE COVERAGE IS FOR PANSIES

That's the invasion of the Mojave, not California. The real question is whether or not Caesar intends to just invade NCR from there.

The way I see it the legion would need to spend years to build up another army to attack California if they could defeat the NCR at the dam. Based on the legatesresponse to the courier it seems they can't afford to bring more troops from the east and the Mojave isn't exactly filled with potential legionaries so they seem to have stalled. That is unless Caesar is content to stop at the Mojave, though that doesn't seem likely.

Good lad! Now destroy Mr. House and have Yes Man help you take over New Vegas. OR!!!! you could just destroy everyone and everything ^^ Lets go Anarchy!!!

i can't believe what spawned from my one comment on the legion.

I pissed of House too. Now to see what Yes Man has to say. I guess my popularity right now is way in the negative.

I have been against the Legion because the main argument is that, despite the fact they have their own hypocrisy(which other groups do, too-such as the NCR) and more so destroy many freedoms, expression, and general happiness, they provide security. While that is true, and they are efficient, I keep the quote in mind, "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." The part about "losing both" might not be true, but nonetheless. And for anyone who isn't higher up, male, and a part of the Legion doesn't really have much security themselves-considering they're treated brutally as slaves or the like. Or are killed because they aren't healthy enough.

Now perhaps getting rid of raiders and murderers, permanently, isn't such a crime-though I don't really agree with torture so much, but drug addicts and prosttutes? I don't consider doing drugs(if only to yourself) and prostitution(if the person prostituting is genuinely willing and not manipulated) such an ultimately and completely evil thing, especially since some of those people are victims. Even for those who might have done it willingly, originally/technically. An example would be the two former Followers of the Apocalypse that you have to help-who actually want to quit, but can't, and are manipulated and abused by the man who supplies their drugs. People CAN be manipulated into any form of abuse-would you blame the victim of an abusive relationship, who's sticking with the guy/girl abusing them? I'm not saying it's okay to stay with the abuser, and to that extent kind of their fault, but you can't just say the person is evil, either.

A little too simple, a little too black and white, and a little too harsh.

:: pats you on the back :: Welcome to the free world my friend

My question about Caesar's Legion is this

Who exactly has citizenship? are all people under Caesar considered a slave?
I mean reading about Rome and Roman law, the Legion doesn't seem to fit that mold

we dont know because we are never shown legion society, we are only shown war conquests and military camps. People see that and assume that it represents society, i ask you, do people go to Camp Forlorn Hope and assume that it represents NCR society? No, but they seem all well fine assuming the worst of Legion society and the best of NCR society, hypocrisy is what it is.

Yea! We should all join forces with Talon Company! Oh, wait, thats right, I wiped out Talon Company

and i singlehandedly wiped out an entire army of Enclave Soldiers in Advanced Power Armor Mk. 2 using only a Tire Iron, don't act as though Fallout 3s cruddy unbalanced combat has any bearing on what should be considered canon lore.

You're right! Its my lore, so its fact for me Lol

Ok... im going to stop spamming <.<

Very true, I was just thinking this very thing in my lastest Legion playthrough. Not a one of us knows what Flagstaff or Denver or Two Sun is like, or seen civilians (or slaves as the case may be) tending crops and milking brahmin

and Mako get's a little touchy when you hate on the TC. Just sayin'

ZONE COVERAGE svckS GOALS POSTS!!

Seriously lshmnfanc (laughed do hard my neighbors filed a noise complaint)

I know. But i hate them!!! Specially since i wanted to join them and they said no >.>

I know how you feel, but that is no reason to hate them, that is just how Bethesda wrote them off as "teh bad guys"

So, what's at Camp Forlorn Hope that reflects so badly on the NCR? I see a bunch of weary soldiers reacting to pressure in various ways. With the exception of the strip, we don't see the civilian side of the NCR all that much, either (unless you count vendors like the Crimson Caravan & Gun Runners). We hear about it, and it's complaints about politics, class and taxes. That's what most comfortable, well-fed, civilized people do, because they aren't worried that their leaders may decide to brutalize them out of boredom or whimsey.

The lengths that people go to to justify their support of the Legion (a bunch of savages ruled by a maniac) crack me up.

Yeahhhh....Not even gonna bother.