That is the first step when you learn to drive, and it worked pretty well for me
And basically, power armor "moves for you".

Yes, you drive the car, but you have somebody teaching you how; I know I sure as heck didn't get into a car and suddenly know how everything worked. I had an experienced driver right with me for an extended period of time before I drove by myself.

And yes, power armor moves for you, but you still need to learn how to wear it, what settings to use, and how to move in it. Again, I've yet to see a setting where you can just jump into PA and it works straight away. I imagine it would be extremely easy to injure yourself if you initially attempted to operate the suit without instruction or supervision, simply due to the degree it enhances your physical capabilities.




Incorrect; Fallout 3 has ~101 quests total. You left out all of the DLCs and all unmarked quests. Hardly a fair comparison, considering you left in all of the unmarked quest equivalents that FO2 has. If you're going to compare stats, be objective.

And before you bring it up, yes, FO2 still has more quests, I'm not debating that. Just correcting your facts.

Fallout 2 has 136 quests and Fallout 3 has 101... However some of the quests I read for Fallout 2 seemed kind of short, like breaking up a fight. But I also counted giving a beggar water and things like that in Fallout 3.


And I know it was on the first page but Styles you got it all wrong. This is NOT a Fallout 3 vs. Fallout: New Vegas thread, I established that in the beginning of the first one. It's a thread to freely and openly dicuss the entire Fallout Series, hence the name.

Yeah, Fo3 and FO2 both have their super-short quests (giving water, well repairing, etc) so it's best not to attempt to discriminate, just go by the numbers.

I don't see why special training is needed. You don't need special training to move your arms and such do you? The armor moves with you, the only special training I could think of would be maintenance and perhaps how to take full advantage of it's abilities while minimizing it's weaknesses. However I think anyone would be able to get in one and be able to move around just fine. The army makes there equipment [censored] proof remember.

I came up with the numbers a couple of weeks ago but I'm fairly certain I didn't count unmarked quests in either game. I didn't count DLCs for the simple fact that Fallout 2 didn't have any expansions. Core game vs. core game. I'm actually kinda surprised that after four DLC releases Fallout 3 is still behind.

The army does, but Power Armor is complex machinery, not a suit of plate armor. It enhances your physical capabilities to an extent that you're going to need to relearn how to move all over again. Starship Troopers is a pretty good example of the way power armor would work, if you've read it. It's a suit you wear over your body, yes, but it completely changes the way you move and that takes serious getting used to. Once you're used to it, you're able to wear it like a second skin, but there's a definite adjustment period, and you stand a good chance of injuring yourself if you're trying it without instruction.

You also need to be instructed on how to wear the thing properly; to use the plate armor example again, I doubt that if I were handed a suit of medieval plate I'd wear it correctly, and that's extremely low-tech full body armor. With power armor you've got to be instructed on how to wear it, activate it, and control it for it to operate properly. It's seriously high-tech machinery.

They added it so the player can't just run out an get PA. Fallout 3 the PA is crap and I don't use it but there is still the Winter T-51b. New Vegas, one can get PA pretty easy if you know where to find it. There are six suits of T-51b power armour out there free for the taking. That and the Devs had to here about how easy it was to get PA in Fallout 2 for many years.

Fallout 3 vanilla game quest

Fallout 2 didnt have any expansion

FO3 has like 70 quests vanilla, but I fail to see why we would compare a portion of one game against the whole of the other.

If FO2 didn't have an expansion (except it sort of did, the Restoration Pack), tough; FO3's DLC still needs to be considered when looking at the game as a whole.

(I think that is the point Styles, PA is suppose to be special, and you can get it very easily in FO2, and be a walking tank with it in basic levels. They at least fixed it until OA came out in FO3, then it became easier to get it then, and PA is still tough to get in NV, but all this argument about training, i still agree you need special training for it, it makes sense really, it is military grade hardware, and you need special training to wear it properly, and granted FO and FO2 never explained that well, i am willing to overlook that because i simply liked playing it, it's just that simple.)

FO PA isn't like Starship trooper PA. Starship trooper PA was more like a vehicle. There arms and legs weren't in the suits arms and legs. In FO it really is a powered suit of "plate mail", as you put it. You never needed it in the originals so why suddenly you needed it? Again the only "special" training you need would be tactical use, and maintenance. Anyone can jump in and move around just fine.

It was by no means "easy" to get in FO2. Not only did you need to be aware of it in the first place, you have to dodge Enclave patrols, or the other baddies if your just going to head down to San Fran and try to buy T-51b.

Don't quote me on this, but I'm almost certain their arms and legs are in the suits' arms and legs in Starship Troopers; at least one of the book's covers depicts that. Furthermore, there is reference made to a suit being "locked up" and the wearer being unable to move because the suit is frozen; that pretty clearly indicates their arms and legs are in the suit's arms and legs.

And what it really boils down to for me is this. Say a suit of medieval plate armor, in all of its component pieces, was dropped on your doorstep. Would you be able to wear that armor as it was intended to be worn, and derive maximum protection from it? Would you know how to put it on? I sure as hell wouldn't. Now, extrapolate that to full-body armor developed 700 years later and powered by a fusion reactor. You're not just going to grab that off of the street and suddenly be able to wear it. Again, it completely changes the way you move and the way your reflexes act. You have to get used to that.

And it is pretty easy to snag in FO2, just check this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng710EBrQ3A&feature=relmfu. He has the APA within the first thirty minutes of gametime, and it only took that long because he rushed the BOZAR first.

The point is that you have to meta-game to be able to get it so easily, just like how you can skip all of the main quest before Vault 112 by just going straight there and have the Enclave spawn with an hour or so of leaving the Vault.

Wait woah what? I'm looking right now at the Fallout 3 official guide and I only see 30 quests.

(if that was true Andaius, i would be running around in FO3 and NV with some of my favorite Armor, kicking [censored] with it, but for example, the t-51b runs on a back-mounted TX-28 MicroFusion Pack which generates 60,000 Watts to power the HiFlo hydraulic systems built into the frame of the suit. If your telling me you do not need training to run a Hydraulic system, then you must be handing me a set of gutted t-45d NCR Heavy Trooper armor, because you do not need training for that as the hydraulics system was removed. Seriously, it is needed, and i think it is important, i know it is not like a vehicle, but you have to know how to operate it, to move in it, to run in it, to sleep in it, to fight in it, and to use the Helmet as well( and i am waiting for that upgrade, that will be cool!). It is nothing to get bent out of shape over, it is just a natural evolution so things do not get abused as it was too easy to get PA and use it, and i like how it turned out to be honest.)

Yup, because there's like 40 more unmarked and repeatable ones. Look at The Vault, not the official game guide.



You have to metagame, yes, but that doesn't change the fact that you can get it insanely quickly.

I don't agree with the way FO3 handled the main quest in that regard either, but they do at least make it more difficult to get the armor by metagaming.

http://www.figures.com/forums/attachments/news/3664d1267193478-yamato-usa-starship-troopers-3-marauder-power-armor-1maraudersculpt.jpg


doesn't look like it to me....

PA is easier to put on,(mostly because I'd say it just breaks down into easily manageable pieces for you to put on. AKA torso comes off you put on the pants and so forth) and just as intuitive to move in as plate armor.

Also yeah, what Enclave said.

With all due respect, the movies are so non-canonical to the book that it hurts.

Look at http://www.jonathanrosenbaum.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/starship-troopers-book.jpg for a better example, or the http://www.warvault.net/promos/images/mongoose/StarshipTroopers/mbst1.jpg

Plate armor breaks down into easily manageable pieces too, but you need to know where all of those pieces go and how they go on. This is even more important in a suit whose ability to move depends on everything being in the exact right place.

Furthermore, there's simply no way to explain away needing to adjust to enhanced reflexes; even if you can just slip into the armor no problem, it will take time to adjust to your body's new capabilities. You don't know your own strength or the extent of your reflexes, and without instruction it's highly likely that you'd injure yourself in the process.

Sorry I never read the books only saw the movies.

PA your not having to attach ever piece to the others, plus you have to remember that the army would built it for the stupidest soldier to understand. So I'd say it would be much much simpler to get into than Plate mail. Also it would take you that long to figure out. After all Plate mail is fitted together so you can't really get it wrong without knowing right away.

Power Amrour is special in Fallout. Fallout 2 I would say its special. Yes it is possible go to its location and get it but only if you want to ruin the game for yourself. I don't do it for that reason and it is also a super pain in the butt IMO to travel all that way past so many Wanamingos, floaters, and armed Humans at an early level. PA is also special in Tactics.

One thing Fallout, Fallout 2 and Tactic has is that you can't loot armour off the dead. Fallout 3 PA is lootable and its everywhere. There is no damage threshold so you can kill Enclave and BoS with a baseball bat. So the Devs added training so to keep people from getting PA early. Maybe its also so that the player has more reason to svck up to the BoS (before OA).

New Vegas PA is still lootable and easy to find. So training is added to keep people from getting it early. Also for some reason both Fallout 3 and New Vegas have alot of BoS walking around without helmets. So the case is "I took his head off so why can't it take the armour?"

To make PA Special again. Don't have it laying around like it is in Fallout New Vegas or everywhere like Fallout 3. Make the Brotherhood or who ever has PA super hard to kill like they are in the Originals. Have them wear helmets! Even in New Vegas I find I can kill them with little trouble once I have reached mid level. In Fallout and Fallout 2 I would not think to shoot at a BoS or Enclave in Fallout 2. Not going to happen but the best way would be to make it special would be to make it unlootable. For to kill someone in PA you would have to destroy the PA to do it.

The book provides an excellent account of what learning to operate power armor would actually be like; I'd also recommend reading it as it's a great work of sci-fi in general (makes the movies look like utter crap)

You would need to attach each piece to the other with power armor because it moves as a whole unit; if the foot isn't attached, and thus powered, to the leg you've got a problem.

I'd think that there would be a little removable pieces as possible. AKA the feet would be attached when you find the armor and would remain being attached when you put it on.

(hmmmm, i think i will have to get those books too.)

How does one classify a "true" fan of the early Fallouts but not a fan of Fallout3 or the other Fallout off-shoots. Can they be called a "true" Fallout fan.

For example, I was truly a great Fallout fan of Fallout 1 and 2, when they were out, but now I have Fallout3 I am no longer a fan of those early Fallouts, and would avoid going back to replay them, like the plague, realising the shortcomings in them that has been starkly shown when playing Fallout3, but I still consider myself a "true" fan.

The Fallout sequels have evolved into Fallout3, yet the essence of the previous ones is still there in Fallout3. It is not actually necessary to play the previous ones to get that essence feel, Bethesda went to lengths to build on the essences of the previous when making Fallout3, not absolutely identical in lesser details but a worthy and true sequel with great in-play improvements. Early sequels had "room-for-improvement".

It made me wonder why I thought the early ones were so great at that time way back. So where does that leave those that do not like the present sequel game Fallout3, though they may feel as much a "true" fan as me or perhaps even more of a fan and having superiority for preferring the early Fallouts, which I now do not prefer.

As long as Fallout4 contains the sequel essence and play of Fallout3, no one will complain, (apart from the usual few). Bethesda has always shown great imagination in their games, I never expected the Fallout3 sequel to be such a good sequel, as long as Fallout4 has the undeveloped wasteland scenario "essence", then I don't think they can go wrong.



(And a request not to have a re-run of the Who wants TB vote, everybody repeating their immovable positions.)