(I posted this same topic on the Nexus board, just for some more input.)

I've read the stickied topics on modding, but I wanted a more specific help. I know how to mod Oblivion and how to manipulate textures, and I am experienced in scripting and modding for other games, although I've never tackled Oblivion because of the sheer effort involved and that I am in waiting for TES: V to begin modding this genre.

Anyways, one of things that I've never really figured how to do is texture. And the problem is that I have absolutely no idea what my goals are. At the moment I can select some things and change their color and attempt to manipulate a block of pixels into something somewhat realistic, but how do people manage full-scale, high-resolution texture packs like the type found so often in Oblivion? I am in such awe, and yet I cannot help but feel like there is a trick to it that I don't understand yet. So this is why I'm coming to the experienced for help.

There are no tutorials I can find on how to texture. I'm a pretty good artist with pencil, pen, paper, etc., but transferring that skill to the computer is something that I find difficult to do. Do I need a tablet? And is there software that you use to render large areas of pixels that I should consider acquiring? And, most importantly, what skill should I start practicing to get better? I'm assuming there are some key elements that should be mastered first before texturing is possible. Should I be experienced in drawing with the mouse like I can on paper? Should I work on color theory and individually making a color for every single pixel in a large block of texture? I don't know how the masters do it, and I'd like to know where to begin. They just don't have guides on this sort of thing, and I've looked for them.

Thank you all for any help and consideration, I know it's probably not worth your time, but any guidance would help me in getting some more experience. It is, after all, my idea to go into video game design in the future, and I need to start focusing on my skills now. Thanks!

hey I am kinda in the same boat as you, but I have figured out a pretty good way how to texture, and the secret is this
get a camera, I have done this and gotten some pretty good textures, just check out the images below, basically if you do it by taking pictures all that you have to do is make it tileable
http://i50.tinypic.com/2gx04lv.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/ek02o7.jpg
oh and if you really want to make a good texture, then add normal maps, and displace maps, you can take the most undetailed thing into a piece of art with those things

Hey,

First of all let me say that it's a good thing that you have some artistic skills already. This gives you a good base to work from in terms of shapes, lighting, shadows and color. Still, translating this to making textures requires you to familarize yourself with certain programs and skills that can sometimes have a steep learning curve to use them to the max. For making the textures either Photoshop or Gimp (which is free) is a must. Also knowing your way in NifSkope (the program used to apply your textures and set materialproperties) is an essential skill.

A good starting point to learn more about texturing for Oblivion is either the CS Wiki or the tutorials and workshops at http://www.invision.tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/forum/18-texturing/.

Good luck! :foodndrink:

EDIT: On the matter of using a mouse or a tablet: this is purely a personal choice. There are still many digital artists that just use a mouse to paint their stuff. I own a Wacom tablet, but seldom use it for texture work.

Hi,

Regarding texture packs for Oblivion, the major ones all use the Oblivion default textures as a base and then apply certain filters and image manipulation techniques in order to achieve their desired results. So the thing you are missing in your understanding about texture packs, is very few actually require any pure artistic skill in creating textures from scratch. For instance, Qarl's Texture Pack uses certain sharpen/resizing techniques rather than actual per texture image editing (mostly).

So you have two types of texture creation. One that starts with an existing texture as a base and one that truly does start "from scratch".

How are textures created from scratch, you ask? Well, the pros almost always use real life photographs or concept art as a "conceptual base" for the texture. Then they use a fair amount of custom brushes/lines/shapes to create their textures. The really talented ones, those who could paint an awesome painting in real life, rely on their traditional art skills mostly.

The cheaper and lamer way is the pros go get/take photographs and then literally use those photographs as base textures. See Crysis as one example of that, or Max Payne, ect. This method creates "photo-realistic" textures because they base textures are literally photos, lol.

You might want to try anolyzing really awesome textures to see how the true pros do it. For instance, Half-Life is a great example of insanely talented artists creating insanely stylized and awesome textures that look real enough but also clearly have a unique art design.

So I suppose my advice is first ask what type of world you are creating. What type of building/armor/weapon/person? Then ask yourself what that element looks like in real life. Then go find some real life examples. Study the shapes, lighting, colors, and such of the object. Get some reference images for it. Then using those images as a reference, open up Photoshop (or whatever) and start sketching out a texture.

If you've got good traditional art skills, then use a graphics tablet for sure. Every pro uses one.

Creating textures is the same as creating any art, you start with nothing, feel overwhelmed, slowly put pieces together (brick by brick), and then eventually have an end result.

(Oh, and there are literally hundreds of tutorials on texturing. Look http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=uNL&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=how+to+create+game+textures&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=...and if you're really serious there are several books on http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20060622/ahearn_01.shtml...)

Nice post, Brumbek! :foodndrink:

I found an old link in my favorites folder on the Bethforums that is still available: http://www.gamesas.com/?showtopic=799551&hl=skydye. Some of the links may be not working, but it has some good info and resources.

Actually, QTP3 mostly uses the "lame" way of taking pictures and using them as base textures. On Anvil's cobblestone texture from QTP3, you can even still see the shadows of those cobblestones, as the picture was taken when it was a sunny day.
(What QTP3 does *not* do is to take vanilla textures and resize and sharpen them. Absolutely not.)

There are very few texture packs out there that don't use that "lame" approach, I think. Of course, filters are often applied to make the textures fit the surroundings.

Well, what counts is the end result. Some of my textures are pretty much build from scratch while others are (though tweaked a bit to suit my needs) photo material. One of the landscape textures I recently needed and made would have taken me ages to paint by hand, while a good photo gave a much faster and (probably) more convincing result.

It all depends on what the textures is for and time can be a major factor as well: most modders have full time jobs or school and other social activities and obligations.

Really? I wasn't aware of that. I only tried QTP3 very briefly, but I did anolyze the textures a bit, and they definitely appeared to have been vanilla base textures greatly sharpened. But I'll admit some (many?) are total replacements such as your cobblestone example. The replacements are of course photo based. However, I still say that many QTP3 textures, specifically, the very custom Oblivion textures that can't easily be replaced by a google search for photos, use sharpening, and a lot of it, but that's personal opinion.

My point was not to insult sharpening. Sharpen is a very effective tool that all pros use, but mostly only when reducing image size. Photoshop's smart sharpen option set to a very low amount can really help low-res images, anyway.

And I agree that most of us don't have the time or artistic abilities to create textures from scratch. The truth is it's much easier to use stock photos from various free (or stolen!) sources. There's nothing wrong with that (except when stealing textures...). The real key is taking a stock photo and then making it fit the artistic style of the game. Way, way, way too many user-made texture packs are ugly because they simply take out of context high-res photos and slap them together and override the carefully designed artistic style of the game. But I digress.

Oh, and to add an actual useful tip, one great way to make texture replacement, is to load both the original and new source as layers into Photoshop and then play with overlay effects and various degrees of transparency and fill. That way you can retain the best of the old and also use the new texture. Anyway...

I don't see how taking pictures is the lame way to make textures, I think of it more as the smart way, because it frees up time from having to make all those pesky texture, but unless you are really good at photoshop you probably won't be able to make too good of a texture. And taking pictures can be just as hard as making a texture, I tried it with a brick wall, I had to pretty much cover the light, take like 20 pictures till I got one that was straight, and after that I still had to make it seamless.

I do think that photoshop can be better at making certain pictures than just taking it. Like the fire that I made.

Ok flat textures are straight forward, but what is the process for making textures for stuff like armor where you have to take the shape into account. I know you can print out texture templates with nifskope for example but i cant wrap my brain around how you paint the texture just using that, for me its just impossible to visualize the 3d texture based on a flat image. Are there programs that let you paint on actual 3d models instead?

This post reminds me of that application Zbrush, I wonder if TES modders have used it or are planning to use a tool like that.

A major selling point is that you can import and export "2D into 3D" objects but I'm not sure as to the compatibility. (edited line)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZBrush

Using photos as an actual base isn't always lame. I was mainly referring to the pro level people who use photos instead of doing actual art work. Still, just using a photo with very little changes tends to almost always produce out of place textures. But I grant you that there are countless people who simply don't have the artistic skill to make well designed textures so photos suffice. I started modeling and texturing using photos and eventually got to the point where I could just use photos as reference and never incorporate them into my work. That should be the goal of any texture artist. But again, if you don't aspire to be a "texture artist" then using photos is pretty much your only option.


As has been pointed out, there are apps that let you paint in 3D. Most are crazy expensive and only used by pros (or pirates). However, the process of turning a 3D mesh into a workable 2D texture is quite difficult at first. It can be such a complex task that many pro studios have people who focus almost solely on doing UVMapping, as it is called.

The way you actually do it in a 3D app is by taking your physical 3D mesh and then "flattening" it out, sort of like if a steam roller went over it. Then you export this as an image file. But yes, then a texture artist has to work around the UV map, and the more complex and curvy the model, the more texture seams you will get.

http://www.biorust.com/index.php?page=tutorial_detail&tutid=85

I quite enjoy UV mapping because it takes a lot of creativity to take a 3D object and present it in a 2D space with minimal distortion (no distortion is impossible).

Ok so most people really do just paint on the texture templates with uv's on them? Must take a lot of time getting used to. I guess you eventually reach a point where you can tell by the uv how big adjustments you need to make to your lines and stuff.