The Atronach : V - Skyrim

» Mon May 16, 2011 9:40 pm

They have? Whats your source?

In the OXM article, states that the ONLY decision you make at the beginning of the game is your race. This was referring to the removal of classes specifically, but might imply no birthsigns.

» Tue May 17, 2011 3:13 am

wouldnt that imply that you dont even pick skills?

» Tue May 17, 2011 9:05 am

No picking skills, though your race improves some slightly.

On Topic, the Atronach sign in Oblivion was a wonderful thing, imho. Every other birthsign gave bonuses or powers, the Atronach changes the whole way you play the game, if you are a mage type character.

» Tue May 17, 2011 5:55 am

In the OXM article, states that the ONLY decision you make at the beginning of the game is your race. This was referring to the removal of classes specifically, but might imply no birthsigns.

But what has that got to do with relying on potions and alchemy?

» Tue May 17, 2011 4:50 am

But what has that got to do with relying on potions and alchemy?

Nothing at all, sorry, was posting on two threads and got confused.

» Tue May 17, 2011 4:05 am

Birthsigns have been around since TES started, and are an integral part of the dynamic of the game....

It might have been better if perhaps you couldn't choose your birthsign and were randomly given one dependent on your characters' "age." However, choosing your birthsign gives you the opportunity to plan ahead and determine how you're going to play your character.

The Atronach birthsign in both MW and OB is one of my favorites as a mage, tbh. It actually requires you to consider how to use your magic tactically, and to not miss! Plus, if you dungeon crawl correctly, you'll never have to buy magicka potions, rather, you'll have so many you'd be selling them. I always seem to get an abundance of those damned potions.

Now as for Skyrim: They said as you play your character, your "birthsign" gets fleshed out, allowing for a more interesting approach to the game. You'll also supposedly have more independent playthroughs, as each play is supposed to already be unique. This means you don't choose a birthsign with stats this time around, and it will hopefully make the game more interesting to play. Well, at least that is their take.

» Tue May 17, 2011 10:03 am

They have? Whats your source?

That is, perhaps, my interpretation of a comment made in the Game Informer article "Building Better Combat." Down at the bottom while discussing magical combat, they say "...and manage your magicka level by consuming potions." To me, that says you're going to have to rely on them to get through a fight with magic.

» Tue May 17, 2011 1:04 am

In Skyrim, everything depends heavily on which race you choose.

» Mon May 16, 2011 11:21 pm

I'll be sorely upset if they remove Birthsigns.
Lets remove races next!

Its been a defining thing of TES...

» Tue May 17, 2011 6:22 am

Playing as a mage in Oblivion made me wonder what the point in all the magika potions were for, they usually ended up being sold. the Atronach birthsign made it feel a bit more natural rather than have a limitless pool of energy.

In Morrowind however it forced you to think ahead whether that meant carrying back up weapons, magika potions or having battery items (items enchanted with restore magika) and Enchanting more items with the everyday and emergency spells. ultimatly it gave you a character who could take on any odds but you had to work at it

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:58 am

The Atronach birth sign was powerful when used by skilled character, yes it has some hard features for newcomers, but newcomers can take another Birth Sign thats will be better suited for them like The Mage

» Tue May 17, 2011 5:26 am

Why does everyone want to destroy the RPG gaming evolution by removing everything from CHARACTER CREATION? It started with that ridiculous Dungeon Siege and now even die-hard games are starting to do this! First, they reduced skills, Then they removed Birth Signs? WTF ?!!!! Character Creation and it's myriad choices has always been the most fun part of any new RPG game, and they want you to type in your name and hit "GO" and that's it! It's [censored], the streamlining of RPG's down to this farce of an introduction.

Welcome to Skyrim. Please type a name and press enter. Your game will begin. No need to read or think about anything, just go ! Yes, you are now a horse at a starting gate! The doors have opened, GO GO GO! RUN, FOREST, RUN!

RPG's are becoming just like p*rn ! In the 70's skin-flicks had mood lighting, grooving music, and storylines ... now they're just put in the disc and get right on with it. It's the fastest way to kill the illusion ... and now RPG's are all moving toward FPS !

What a joke.

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:44 am

Why does everyone want to destroy the RPG gaming evolution by removing everything from CHARACTER CREATION? It started with that ridiculous Dungeon Siege and now even die-hard games are starting to do this! First, they reduced skills, Then they removed Birth Signs? WTF ?!!!! Character Creation and it's myriad choices has always been the most fun part of any new RPG game, and they want you to type in your name and hit "GO" and that's it! It's [censored], the streamlining of RPG's down to this farce of an introduction.

Welcome to Skyrim. Please type a name and press enter. Your game will begin. No need to read or think about anything, just go ! Yes, you are now a horse at a starting gate! The doors have opened, GO GO GO! RUN, FOREST, RUN!

RPG's are becoming just like p*rn ! In the 70's skin-flicks had mood lighting, grooving music, and storylines ... now they're just put in the disc and get right on with it. It's the fastest way to kill the illusion ... and now RPG's are all moving toward FPS !

What a joke.

I think the entire point is to grow into your character, rather than start with it fixed in stone. Personally I would rather grow into a mage, warrior or thief, having farmer or useless third son of noble house as my past, than start as a fixed adventuring class, and continue in that vein.
Hopefully, with the perks and the open skill leveling, Character creation will be just as complex, but an on-going process, rather than being decided at the beginning.

» Mon May 16, 2011 10:04 pm

I'm currently playing my second Atronach character in Oblivion. As with last time, I'm constantly experiencing gameplay issues that leads me to believe that The Atronach birthsign is just a little bit too harsh. Let me explain:

"The Atronach" birthsign in Oblivion gives us +150 Magicka at the cost of Stunted Magicka (cannot regenerate Magicka). The additional +50% Spell Absorption is a good way to get back some of the Magicka - BUT - as I'm playing my character, I'm finding my Magicka to be constantly depleted (at least for the first 5-10 levels). One can always use Potions of Sorcery or Welkynd Stones, but that's a rather expensive (and rare, early on) investment. Especially when your money needs to be spent elsewhere (getting your first house for storage, for instance).

After a few hours of play, I've come to the conclusion that the birthsign doesn't really give any real benefit, because +150 Magicka doesn't matter if you never get to use it anyways. The Magicka drains too quickly and then you cannot regenerate it, even by a minimal amount. So for this thread, I'd like to hear other forumers' experience with the birthsign. Is it useless, just fine or even overpowered? My point is that, for Skyrim, I want this to be reviewed and possibly done something about.

(Note: this assumes that we're not benefitting from the 100% spell absorption from enchantments etc, which to me is another bad feature that sort of ruins the "magic feel" of magic)

Suggestion:

My suggestion is really simple and conservative, as there's really nothing wrong with the core idea that the birthsign represents. Why not make it so that we Atronachs can regenerate Magicka at a drastically lower rate than normally (instead of not at all). On one hand, we still get stunted all the time and thus need to seriously plan out our spell use. But on the other hand, we can still use beds to get back up to full. That way, we need to be smart but we won't feel constantly drained. I really enjoy the predicament of being an Atronach, but I just feel like it's penalizing us a little too much compared to the benefits it gives us. It's not terrible, just a little underpowered.

For Oblivion: "The Atronach" - +150 Magicka, +50% Spell Absorption, Stunted Magicka (unable to regenerate Magicka naturally)
For Skyrim: "The Atronach" - +150 Magicka, +50% Spell Absorption (at 0% spell deflection) or 75% (Dragonbone's suggestion, below), Stunted Magicka (-90% Magicka regeneration and 50% reduction to Restore Magicka effects)

I just think it's kinda pointless to choose "The Atronach" if it doesn't quite give that gameplay value that can compete with the other birthsigns. Also, let me know if it looks ok, but not quite what you had in mind (feel free to share your own suggestion).

Discuss!

How about something as simple as having very slow regeneration rather than no regeneration? So that Atronach characters have a very deep magicka well that lets them cast the most powerful spells, but they cannot use it for long in prolonged combat since theirs regenerates half as slow as everyone else's?

» Tue May 17, 2011 1:24 pm

I′ve said it before and I will say it again.

Do not take the atronach birthsign if you are going to be a mage

Just like you don′t take the shadow as a warrior and the apprentice as a thief

You wouldn′t like it if you played a mage with the apprentice birthsign all the time and it got changed because I wanted it to give less mana and to remove the weakness so it would fit my warrior character better now would you ? I don′t consider the atronach a birthsign for pure mages but for mixed classes, a battlemage or a cleric.

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:21 am

There are no birthsigns in Skyrim, so this thread is pointless.

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:51 am

There are no birthsigns in Skyrim, so this thread is pointless.

I′ve been following up on Skyrim info the best I can but haven′t heard anything about birth-signs so far. Can you provide a link for me ?

» Tue May 17, 2011 8:26 am

I′ve been following up on Skyrim info the best I can but haven′t heard anything about birth-signs so far. Can you provide a link for me ?

It's either from GI or OXM. Todd basically said that as you make gameplay decisions with your character, it will effect how your "constellation" looks on your menu screen when you press up. The stars that make up the constellations will begin to glow depending on what skill, magic, etc. you are using. The three main constellations look like a mage, a warrior and a thief.

» Tue May 17, 2011 3:32 am

I′ve been following up on Skyrim info the best I can but haven′t heard anything about birth-signs so far. Can you provide a link for me ?

It was said the only choice you'd have to make at the begining of the game essentially is race(which would be from the character designer most likely), it's not solidly confirming no birthsigns but it somewhat infers it, it was directed at the idea there would be no classes. I have no direct links to the interview it was mentioned in, but someone might have a link somewhere.

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:10 am

There is nothing wrong with The Atronach. I've played a Battlemage using it, relying mostly on swords and enchanted items, and only tapping the mana pool in emergencies.

If you plan on having a very active mana pool, you shouldn't have chosen The Atronach. Simple as that. Pure mages need to stop being greedy and drooling over that extra Magicka.

Regarding birthsigns in general, I'd be sad to see them go, but more because they added depth to the world as opposed to actually affecting gameplay. Most of the birthsigns gave you benefits you rarely used after the first few levels, or bonuses which were soon outstripped by the natural leveling process. But having those abilities made you feel more special and unique.

» Tue May 17, 2011 7:48 am

It's either from GI or OXM. Todd basically said that as you make gameplay decisions with your character, it will effect how your "constellation" looks on your menu screen when you press up. The stars that make up the constellations will begin to glow depending on what skill, magic, etc. you are using. The three main constellations look like a mage, a warrior and a thief.

And how exactly does this have anything whatsoever to do with Birthsigns? Can you provide concrete confirmation, and not just some vague assumption based on something that seems logical to you?

» Tue May 17, 2011 8:40 am

And how exactly does this have anything whatsoever to do with Birthsigns? Can you provide concrete confirmation, and not just some vague assumption based on something that seems logical to you?

It's in ~~Game Informer's~~ (Playstation Official Magazine French/Italian) Skyrim article. Sorry if that's not concrete enough for you.

Edit: It was from another mag. Here's what it said though:

You don't choose a birth sign at character creation. Instead, you choose perks when you level up. Each perk corresponds to a star, and the different signs are different perk trees (and related perks). Thus you can choose perks from a variety of astrological signs, lighting up individual stars, or you can focus on a few signs and get them completely lit up. The sky is divided into Magic, Combat, and Stealth regions, and the signs in those areas are made up of perks for those specializations.

» Tue May 17, 2011 3:20 am

I think the entire point is to grow into your character, rather than start with it fixed in stone. Personally I would rather grow into a mage, warrior or thief, having farmer or useless third son of noble house as my past, than start as a fixed adventuring class, and continue in that vein.
Hopefully, with the perks and the open skill leveling, Character creation will be just as complex, but an on-going process, rather than being decided at the beginning.

I'm not trying to flame you, but I think you severely missed my point. I never said having a background and having character development were mutually exclusive. One OR the other. No. You can still develop your character to kingdom come. I only thought it would be cool to have the chance to create your own badguy and your own reasons for disliking him, and making him a tad bit of a nuisance during the early part of your game between levels 6 and 12. No more, no less. You STILL define yourself and your character by how you choose to play. The backstory element has nothing to do with character development. The fact is that this is just a person from your past and they are showing up like any quest ... except that it is stretched out for a longer period of time over 5-10 visitations spread between levels 6 through 12. You only see him 1-2 times per level. You battle, he taunts you, you hate him a bit more, and then he gets away again.

And as I said before, if you didn't want him in there, you needn't check "enable backstory" in the startup window. No muss no fuss.

» Tue May 17, 2011 4:32 pm

Isn't the Sun a hole in Mundus of which all Magick is derived? why can't Atronach's regen during the day and none at night? I wish Atronach had subsidaries since there isnt just 1 Atronach, there is fire, frost, lighting and a whole myriad of others we don't know about yet, couldnt your birth signs reflect those stations as well?

» Tue May 17, 2011 10:25 am

Stunted Magicka is a joke

The Atronach is a weird birthsign I'm not even sure it'll be in Skyrim but I would definitely want them to work on getting rid of Stunted Magicka even if that means lowering the amount of Magicka you get to 25 and the amount of Spell Absorbtion to either 20% or 25%.