The Atronach : V - Skyrim

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:08 pm

It was said the only choice you'd have to make at the begining of the game essentially is race(which would be from the character designer most likely), it's not solidly confirming no birthsigns but it somewhat infers it, it was directed at the idea there would be no classes. I have no direct links to the interview it was mentioned in, but someone might have a link somewhere.

That is really really awful!
I want a custom class with a name I choose myself. I want a birthsign.
So this means all I get to choose is my name? And then my profession will be 'adventurer'. Blegh.
I want to be a healer or a spellsword.. I love all those little customisations.

Removing options = removing content = removing replayability.

Not good news. Hope its not true.

» Tue May 17, 2011 3:07 am

I'll predict the atronach will be there in some form even if birthsigns aren't. Stunted Magicka + Spell Absorption gameplay was around even before birthsigns were; it was a feature of the Sorcerer class originally. Maybe it'll be a perk now.

» Tue May 17, 2011 10:20 am

A couple things. I seem to remember replenishing my mana at chapel alters when I first played Oblivion. I think mods now prevent me from doing that and have slowed the how quickly ayleid wells replenish. I still don't find Atronach that difficult, even at low levels, but it certainly would be if I didn't know where to find flax and steel blue entoloma. You can summon ghosts and hope for absorption but you don't really want to depend on that for bread and butter replenishment. The birthsign does conflict with a head off in whatever direction fancy leads you approach to the game.

Even if birthsigns are absent I'm hoping for an Atronach perk that might become available to experienced mages. Getting it later in the game would give mages a chance to establish their magicka supply earlier.

» Tue May 17, 2011 1:14 pm

It's in ~~Game Informer's~~ (Playstation Official Magazine French/Italian) Skyrim article. Sorry if that's not concrete enough for you.

Edit: It was from another mag. Here's what it said though:

You don't choose a birth sign at character creation. Instead, you choose perks when you level up. Each perk corresponds to a star, and the different signs are different perk trees (and related perks). Thus you can choose perks from a variety of astrological signs, lighting up individual stars, or you can focus on a few signs and get them completely lit up. The sky is divided into Magic, Combat, and Stealth regions, and the signs in those areas are made up of perks for those specializations.

So if you can pick perks from the sky regions of magic, combat, and stealth are these seperate from perks say for one-handed blade or axe? Or picking a perk for a skill like one-handed blade just light up a star in the combat region of the sky? Although this sounds kind of interesting I wish they could keep the birthsigns (constellations) and as you pick a perk it corresponds to a certain birthsign, still keeping the different constellations. Obvious ones would be the warrior sign in the combat region of the sky. Or the mage in the magic region. Others would be a little harder to define maybe, but each region (combat, magic, stealth) would have several birthsigns in it. Sliming them down to just combat, stealth, and magic seems unimaginative. But I guess it fits better with their skill window with the constellation behind it.

I may be misremembering since I haven't played MW in a while, but I thought that if you looked into the sky (which I thought was quite stunning) you could actally see the constellations for the birthsigns. If so, removing them seems a bad idea. They may not have been in all TES games, but the last two incorporated them and I think Skyrim and later ones should too. It's different than say, changing combat mechanics to make it work better.

As for the OP, I never really was that successful playing a atronach mage because of the problems you state, but I wouldn't change it except maybe allowing it to regen during sleep. As others have said, it isn't for everyone. Some like the challenge, don't take it away from them because you don't like it. And as another posted Atronach actually works quite well with non-mage/hybrid characters.

» Tue May 17, 2011 6:58 am

i just played a atronach altmer, i didn't have any problems at all. Carried a claymore for rats and mudcrabs, used cost effective spells. At level 14 i had 100 percent spell absorbstion. Doing the mq i had so much fire salts i sat down and made 60 restore magicka with them + flax seeds. Imo its fine as it is.

Also it works really well as a fighters birthsign because you'll never use magicka but the absorbing helps out when you fight mages

» Tue May 17, 2011 6:18 pm

I don′t think the Atronach was designed for mages. I played as a sort of cleric where I used heavy armor with a shield + mace, and I had restoration + alteration spells and the Atronach birth-sign. The way I played was that I didn′t cast spells except shielding Alteration spells on hard fight and was essentially just a sword′n′board (yes I know I used a mace) warrior who had the benefits of being able to throw powerful healing and protecting spells when in a pinch due to a large amount of magicka.

I played just fine that way and never had any troubles so I think taking the Atronach to be a pure spell-caster is like taking the shadow to be a warrior or the apprentice to be a thief.

This.

It is one of the most awesome birth signs out there for non-mages and people want to make it better than it already is?

» Tue May 17, 2011 3:48 pm

im enjoying my play thru under The Atronach. Its made for a really strong RP for my character, and gotten me more into my character. And yea im playing as pretty magic heavy. Not pure magic, but combat focus and hugely magic dependent.

» Tue May 17, 2011 11:06 am

Atronach was fine I always use it. It's my favorite birthsign doesn't need a buff it can get ridiculous later on.

» Tue May 17, 2011 6:29 am

Yeah, there are no more birthsigns

» Tue May 17, 2011 5:25 am

That is really really awful!
I want a custom class with a name I choose myself. I want a birthsign.
So this means all I get to choose is my name? And then my profession will be 'adventurer'. Blegh.
I want to be a healer or a spellsword.. I love all those little customisations.

Removing options = removing content = removing replayability.

Not good news. Hope its not true.

its very good news. yes its true

» Tue May 17, 2011 8:05 am

I'm not trying to flame you, but I think you severely missed my point. I never said having a background and having character development were mutually exclusive. One OR the other. No. You can still develop your character to kingdom come. I only thought it would be cool to have the chance to create your own badguy and your own reasons for disliking him, and making him a tad bit of a nuisance during the early part of your game between levels 6 and 12. No more, no less. You STILL define yourself and your character by how you choose to play. The backstory element has nothing to do with character development. The fact is that this is just a person from your past and they are showing up like any quest ... except that it is stretched out for a longer period of time over 5-10 visitations spread between levels 6 through 12. You only see him 1-2 times per level. You battle, he taunts you, you hate him a bit more, and then he gets away again.

And as I said before, if you didn't want him in there, you needn't check "enable backstory" in the startup window. No muss no fuss.

Okay now sir I am seriosuly confused at what point in any of this did you ever mention a enemy you created?

Why does everyone want to destroy the RPG gaming evolution by removing everything from CHARACTER CREATION? It started with that ridiculous Dungeon Siege and now even die-hard games are starting to do this! First, they reduced skills, Then they removed Birth Signs? WTF ?!!!! Character Creation and it's myriad choices has always been the most fun part of any new RPG game, and they want you to type in your name and hit "GO" and that's it! It's [censored], the streamlining of RPG's down to this farce of an introduction.

Welcome to Skyrim. Please type a name and press enter. Your game will begin. No need to read or think about anything, just go ! Yes, you are now a horse at a starting gate! The doors have opened, GO GO GO! RUN, FOREST, RUN!

RPG's are becoming just like p*rn ! In the 70's skin-flicks had mood lighting, grooving music, and storylines ... now they're just put in the disc and get right on with it. It's the fastest way to kill the illusion ... and now RPG's are all moving toward FPS !

What a joke.

I think you are thinking of a diffrernt thread friend because you were complaining about RPG's becoming streamlined and such. The RESPONSE to which was that you AREN'T losing your oprions it is just becoming more of a progressive thing through the game rather than starting off as a class and a birthsign and everything set out for you. I have no idea why you started rambling about some reoccuring enemy or whatever.

» Tue May 17, 2011 5:44 am

Personally I think the Tower birthsign is the one that needs the most tuning. O, great I can open ONE average lock a day, amazing!

P.S. They said stars would play a huge role in Skyrim so I doubt they'll get ride of Birth signs.

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:26 pm

Okay now sir I am seriosuly confused at what point in any of this did you ever mention a enemy you created?

I think you are thinking of a diffrernt thread friend because you were complaining about RPG's becoming streamlined and such. The RESPONSE to which was that you AREN'T losing your oprions it is just becoming more of a progressive thing through the game rather than starting off as a class and a birthsign and everything set out for you. I have no idea why you started rambling about some reoccuring enemy or whatever.

Wow, that does sound a bit rambling and whatnot. I can only try my best to assure you I never posted this here in this thread and I feel the board made a posting error. It has nothing to do with this thread. It was on another thread I created about Backstories... and makes me wonder if that thread even got this response since it showed up here instead .... jeesh... way to go, forums, for making me feel suddenly insane.

Jeesh! hahahaha

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:23 pm

I'm currently playing my second Atronach character in Oblivion. As with last time, I'm constantly experiencing gameplay issues that leads me to believe that The Atronach birthsign is just a little bit too harsh. Let me explain:

"The Atronach" birthsign in Oblivion gives us +150 Magicka at the cost of Stunted Magicka (cannot regenerate Magicka). The additional +50% Spell Absorption is a good way to get back some of the Magicka - BUT - as I'm playing my character, I'm finding my Magicka to be constantly depleted (at least for the first 5-10 levels). One can always use Potions of Sorcery or Welkynd Stones, but that's a rather expensive (and rare, early on) investment. Especially when your money needs to be spent elsewhere (getting your first house for storage, for instance).

After a few hours of play, I've come to the conclusion that the birthsign doesn't really give any real benefit, because +150 Magicka doesn't matter if you never get to use it anyways. The Magicka drains too quickly and then you cannot regenerate it, even by a minimal amount. So for this thread, I'd like to hear other forumers' experience with the birthsign. Is it useless, just fine or even overpowered? My point is that, for Skyrim, I want this to be reviewed and possibly done something about.

(Note: this assumes that we're not benefitting from the 100% spell absorption from enchantments etc, which to me is another bad feature that sort of ruins the "magic feel" of magic)

Suggestion:

My suggestion is really simple and conservative, as there's really nothing wrong with the core idea that the birthsign represents. Why not make it so that we Atronachs can regenerate Magicka at a drastically lower rate than normally (instead of not at all). On one hand, we still get stunted all the time and thus need to seriously plan out our spell use. But on the other hand, we can still use beds to get back up to full. That way, we need to be smart but we won't feel constantly drained. I really enjoy the predicament of being an Atronach, but I just feel like it's penalizing us a little too much compared to the benefits it gives us. It's not terrible, just a little underpowered.

For Oblivion: "The Atronach" - +150 Magicka, +50% Spell Absorption, Stunted Magicka (unable to regenerate Magicka naturally)
For Skyrim: "The Atronach" - +150 Magicka, +50% Spell Absorption (at 0% spell deflection) or 75% (Dragonbone's suggestion, below), Stunted Magicka (-90% Magicka regeneration and 50% reduction to Restore Magicka effects)

I just think it's kinda pointless to choose "The Atronach" if it doesn't quite give that gameplay value that can compete with the other birthsigns. Also, let me know if it looks ok, but not quite what you had in mind (feel free to share your own suggestion).

Discuss!

I agree with you even though I have fun when playing with Atronach. It makes the game challenging for me. It drives me to become a great alchemist and rely on my sword and shield more than magic so I become great that way too. Then when I do use magic I save it for important times and during those times I make sure to release the strongest [censored] I have. A good spell to use that doesnt run too much magic is to have a touch based element attack that does like 25 points of damage for a second or two. Next add 100% weakness to both magic and the element of the spell for like two seconds. Does decent damage but doesn't cost too much because its short and 'weak' in terms of real power. You just make it hurt by making enemies weak to it. While I get by like this I realise Atronach does have flaws. So I suggested for the next game to have Birthsign evolutions where Birthsigns dont stay the same for the duration of your game but they increase and change everytime you level up and every ten levels a branch perk of the birthsign could be chosen to improve said birthsign to the point your charater is truly terrifying to battle. Example: Atronaches could have the amount of magic they have increase by 50 points every level and the branch perks could be something like dramitcaly increasing the power of your spells like godlike effectivness and/or you can boost spell absorbtion to 100% so you could never be affected by magic. Another perk could be to learn how to use every spell you absorb. The end result of such a character would be one that can take any spell thrown at him and throw it back ten times worse with almost no drain on his massive magic supply. I think it would work.