I'm currently playing my second Atronach character in Oblivion. As with last time, I'm constantly experiencing gameplay issues that leads me to believe that The Atronach birthsign is just a little bit too harsh. Let me explain:

"The Atronach" birthsign in Oblivion gives us +150 Magicka at the cost of Stunted Magicka (cannot regenerate Magicka). The additional +50% Spell Absorption is a good way to get back some of the Magicka - BUT - as I'm playing my character, I'm finding my Magicka to be constantly depleted (at least for the first 5-10 levels). One can always use Potions of Sorcery or Welkynd Stones, but that's a rather expensive (and rare, early on) investment. Especially when your money needs to be spent elsewhere (getting your first house for storage, for instance).

After a few hours of play, I've come to the conclusion that the birthsign doesn't really give any real benefit, because +150 Magicka doesn't matter if you never get to use it anyways. The Magicka drains too quickly and then you cannot regenerate it, even by a minimal amount. So for this thread, I'd like to hear other forumers' experience with the birthsign. Is it useless, just fine or even overpowered? My point is that, for Skyrim, I want this to be reviewed and possibly done something about.

(Note: this assumes that we're not benefitting from the 100% spell absorption from enchantments etc, which to me is another bad feature that sort of ruins the "magic feel" of magic)


Suggestion:

My suggestion is really simple and conservative, as there's really nothing wrong with the core idea that the birthsign represents. Why not make it so that we Atronachs can regenerate Magicka at a drastically lower rate than normally (instead of not at all). On one hand, we still get stunted all the time and thus need to seriously plan out our spell use. But on the other hand, we can still use beds to get back up to full. That way, we need to be smart but we won't feel constantly drained. I really enjoy the predicament of being an Atronach, but I just feel like it's penalizing us a little too much compared to the benefits it gives us. It's not terrible, just a little underpowered.

For Oblivion: "The Atronach" - +150 Magicka, +50% Spell Absorption, Stunted Magicka (unable to regenerate Magicka naturally)
For Skyrim: "The Atronach" - +150 Magicka, +50% Spell Absorption (at 0% spell deflection) or 75% (Dragonbone's suggestion, below), Stunted Magicka (-90% Magicka regeneration and 50% reduction to Restore Magicka effects)

I just think it's kinda pointless to choose "The Atronach" if it doesn't quite give that gameplay value that can compete with the other birthsigns. Also, let me know if it looks ok, but not quite what you had in mind (feel free to share your own suggestion).

Discuss!

I didn't think they were doing birthsigns.

Though if so, I'd just up the magicka absorbtion to 75%.

I like it. Regenerating at only 10% the normal rate is far from an easy character to play, but I think would feel a lot more natural. I've never been fond of stunted magicka, even on a roleplaying level. Because if magicka is something that is generated from your own body and intelligence, then stripping away regeneration just makes it feel more like you're carrying around a flask of magic, rather than it being a power from within you.

So yeah, I like your idea. Well done. :thumbsup:

With 2 items and the atronarch birthsign you will become IMMUNE to magic. That is not overpowered at all. :whistling:

You have alchemy right? Make your own magicka potions.

And thats why I never used that birthsign. But its there for the people who feel you shouldn't regenerate magicka.
And I'd agree to an increase in the spell absorption %

It's a thought, but I don't think that would solve the problem, because the main reason why I'm constantly stunted is because there are so few spellcasters around to really benefit from the absorption. Early on, you only meet them sparingly (if at all), although later on their rate of spawning increases somewhat because you start meeting more NPC spellcasters, Imps, Daedra and whatnot. But still, it feels very awkward and additional absorption would still not help the early game.

If Bethesda kept it as it was or they did as you suggested, then they'd have to increase the likelyness of encountering spellcasters too. If they did, then I agree that this would be a good solution.

I've always wanted to play as the Atronach, but never got around to doing it just from what you've complained about. I agree that it should regenerate, yet very slowly to where you'd basically have to be outside of a combat situation for it to recover.

I played as an atronarch... with a couple quest items I was at 100% absorption which trivialized many of the most dangerous enemies such as Liches, wil'o'wisps, xilavi, atronarchs, etc...

When you hit the end game it is a super powerful birthsign.

I don't know. I remember being constantly attacked by imps using destruction magic.

The only reason why I disagree is because there are people who think magic shouldn't regenerate at all. Some people think you should be reliant on resting (something that stunted magicka probably shouldn't interefere with, but it does) and potions.

If you want a better experience, I'd mod in a quick absorb magicka lesser power.


That was more of an issue with the ridiculous enchantments they put in the game.

Pretty sure they have revamped the birth sign aspect of the game, I don't think it's remotely the same anymore.

True, but that's a bad feature that I think they should remove, as well. Spell Absorption should not deflect spells, it should merely absorb the Magicka used for them. I assume some hardcoe fans might say that it wouldn't make as much sense, but I totally disagree - Spell Absorption could simply be that your own Magicka regeneration got a boost (it wakes up) every time you get hit by any spell (and the magnitude determines the absorption amount/percentage).

Btw, I updated the OP with an improved suggestion.

A breton can be IMMUNE to magic with 1 only object. and any other race with 3 (orcs with 2), without losing magicka regeneration.

Would it ultimately really make that much of a difference? They've already said that magical combat is going to be a potion chug-fest. So you're going to have to keep yourself well stocked with them, anyways, if you're playing a spell caster.

Where did they say that?

There are no birthsigns this time. By the way birthsigns were only in ob and mw so its not surprising they got rid of it.

There is certainly speculation that this is the case, rendering the issue irrelevent. Still, if birthsigns WERE still in, I think a lot of them could do with rebalancing, not just the Atronach, as some were overpowered while others were pretty useless unless you really wanted to role-play a character born under that sign. If you're going to have a mechanic like birthsigns in you're game, you should aim to make it so that there's no best or worst sign, just that each sign gives benefits that may be useful to certain character types, and which to use should be a decision that must be made by considering the advantages (And disadvantages if a sign has any.) of each sign and then choosing the one with effects that best suits what the player wants for the current character, it shouldn't be a choice that's made for players because some signs are just superior in every way.

Though I think in Morrowind, the Atronach birthsign was actually more useful, which I primarily attribute to magicka regenerating only when resting, as it meant that not being able to regenerate magicka at all was a less major penalty.

I don′t think the Atronach was designed for mages. I played as a sort of cleric where I used heavy armor with a shield + mace, and I had restoration + alteration spells and the Atronach birth-sign. The way I played was that I didn′t cast spells except shielding Alteration spells on hard fight and was essentially just a sword′n′board (yes I know I used a mace) warrior who had the benefits of being able to throw powerful healing and protecting spells when in a pinch due to a large amount of magicka.

I played just fine that way and never had any troubles so I think taking the Atronach to be a pure spell-caster is like taking the shadow to be a warrior or the apprentice to be a thief.

I think Atronarch is really for expert players/replaying the game with a bit more skill, since if you get alchemy up, you can just get lots of flax seeds and craft many restore magicka potions but the benefits you get from it are going to really benefit an experienced player. Alternative go for the mage's guild early and farm necromancers for sorcery potions.

Perhaps it should have gifted a lot more magicka at it tho, so you aren't gunna feel a rush as the magicka fills the bar but still has 10 seconds left. Maybe +250 or +300 Instead, also would make the top end version of Fingers of the Mountain more accessible....



Or choosing breton, only need 1 item then... of course you don't then always absorb the magic rather just ensured you are going to resist it if you don't absorb it...

i'd say put the absorb effect up to 75% and the extra magika pool up to 200.

Seriously, anything that makes the game even 'easier' should not really be considered at this time. If you don't like the way the atronach birthsign plays, then choose something else thats a little less game-changing. Don't immediately jump on the 'this is too hard, so it needs to be nerfed' bandwagon. There's a lot of people out there that actually WANT that difficulty in the game. You SHOULD be running out of mana at low levels.

I want a Cheese Atronarch!
(Wrote this even before reading the post.)

Anyway, no!
Use Alchemy and make potions.
Also, didn't they scrap all the birth sings and stuff?

They have? Whats your source?

One of my favourite roleplays was a mage hunting breton who never used magic (reason he hates mages being he's a breton who can't use...magic...) and had the atronach birthsign. He was great fun to play with.

Of course, for actual magic users? It svcks, horribly. Hopefully there'll be ways to work around it.

i didnt do atronach on oblivion but iirc i had things i could do to refill my mana on morrowind, like the glove that summoned all three atronachs then you attack them with your 100% absorption from the sign + items.