Mr sawyer what is you're personal take on the difficulty in the game? And what do you mean by you see terrible people on youtube playing fallout New Vegas like what is a characteristic thing of them to do (so i hopefully don't do that ).Ohhh :fallout: .And i admire you for taking the time to talk to us.

But that would require multiple sliders. Maybe one slider for BoS armor, one for their weapon damage, one for health (for those who actually like bullet sponges) etc. Then equal numbers of sliders for every other faction, companion, boss, shopkeeper (prices and availability), and so on & so forth. You'd have pages of sliders in some sub-menu that (most likely) you'd have to set before you loaded a save game, and then people would complain it was too complicated to figure out what all the sliders do. lol

I'm sure it's potentially possible, given time, resources, cash, and the right engine, but I'm not sure it'd work well...or be worth the time to a business model. That's why they toss out editors to the players instead & make them do the "work".

It wouldn t have to be that complicated. Give me control of NPC fighters special, combat skills, hp and thats all I need. Shopkeepers are not soilders, so I d expect most of them to go down quick.

In nba 2k11 every single player on every single team can be changed. They have 20-25 atributes that can be changed on every player, plus about 3-5 tendencies.

I know it can be done on a much larger scale than I m talking for fo, but the rest of fo might be so extensive it may not allow for it. Only a fo game dev would know if it could be done. For those that don t want to mess with it leave it default.

It seems like it'd be that complicated (in NV) because different NPC's have different "fighter's special, combat skills, and hp's" - you can't have one slider that controls all NPC's/factions in the game in one fell swoop, thus you'd need many different sliders for each type/group of NPC, as I already said.

I'm not familiar with sports games...does this nba game have you select all this stuff and then largely sit back and watch the results, that sort of thing? That would be a little less dynamic than a RPG game & maybe easier to deal with. But...frankly, I don't know enough about game programming to really debate it.

I think it was spot on the first playthrough after that you learn all the little tricks of the system so it has become easier which is to be expected and I think they've struck a nice balance between the casual player and those of us that like be challanged.

To Mr. Sawyer , thankyou for a great game that I invested well over 400 hours into and will continue to invest my time into.....hardcoe mode needs to be an experience that even the most battle-hardened fallout gamers will scratch their heads in frustration over....more like Dead Money where every stimpak or bit of ammo we can find almost becomes a Godsend....I know you can do it!! I believe in you guys!!!! :fallout:

Note: I do not want the game to be tweaked to #6 or #7, I want a new kind of difficulty setting (similar (but different) to hardcoe Mode) for those.

Okay, so the way I look at difficulty sliders (in an RPG) is this:

That first you have #1, it's the easiest difficulty, mostly meant for those that want cakewalk difficulties or for casual gamers. (Depends on "how" easy #1 is)
Then we have #2, easy as well, maybe "normal", for those that know they want a moderate challenge and to learn the game and end up good.
#3 comes along where some "veterans" gets their fun at. They want to learn the game while under a constant challenge throughout their first playthrough. Or for those who've played #2 and want to use the experience they've gained and see if they can handle the next difficulty.
Then we have #4, this one should be for first time players who are pro's at similar genre's or for those that have played #3 and wants to step it up.
At #5 we get to the point where you can't really play it unless you know what the game is about. This one is for those that have played it already and wants to replay it and step up the challenge. Or, well, you "can" play it, but for a first timer who should start at #2 or even #1 it might/will be too hard.
And finally #6 and #7, for this I need to explain in RPG genre:

Say you know how to build your character to be a beast?
You know what to spec on and what to leave behind.
You know where the equipment you need is found.
You know what quests need to be done.
You know what enemies there are and what tactics to use against them.

#7 is the absolutely highest notch.
And here's why: You can't play on #7 unless you're an expert at the game.

That's the way I see it.

There should be a difficulty where you need "the best of the best" to even survive.
A difficulty that is meant for those that know how to build (almost) flawless characters.

If Very Hard hardcoe Mode is #5 then I want #6 and #7.
I want a difficulty mode where we need the perfect specs for the perfect build.
We need the perfect tactics to beat enemies.
And we need the best equipment to survive them.

That is what I want.
#7.
If I'm "so good" that #5 is no longer a challenge then I want to use my knowledge of how to play the game and step it up a notch.
I want a challenge.

What good is there to give us this overpowered crap if we can't utilize our builds and equipment in a difficulty mode where they're required?
This is the reason I don't use YCS/Holorifle+++/RCW+/PA/Ballistic Fist.

This is just my opinion on how difficulty modes should be handled.
But by doing this at least those of us who want that masochistic combat can get it.

[edit]

The # spectrum is not to be taken literally of how "I want every RPG to be with difficulty settings".
What I mean with it is that "some gamers choose this difficulty and some choose this, and those that want to up their difficulty should always have an option and a reason to do so". Especially the RPGames should allow for #7 to be a possibility. No matter if the game have 3 or 17 difficulty settings. #7 should be possible.
Since I played FO3 for 800+ hours I'd say I jumped right into #4.
After I've played it for awhile though I wanted to go higher, so I chose #5, and learned it.
Now I'm ready to use my knowledge of tactics, specs, builds and gear to climb #6 and later #7.
But I can't do that.
The game ends at #5.
So now I know how to get the best crap in the game but can't use it because then it's too easy.

Why spend time on tweaking #5,6&7 when developer can focus on #2or3, then work their way down and express a little be of devil on #4?

I play on very hard/hardcoe, and I don't build my character to be a god(max specials,skills,etc), I don't wait to get all skill books before maxing a particular skill, but by the time I reach lvl 35 most of the enemies I find are no challenge at all, I usually make a save in the battle of hoover damn because its probably the only place where I had to stop and think how to engage my enemies so that I don't get killed. The main reason of that is probably because the enemies in that place are scaled according to the player lvl(not actually sure but it seems so) and I enjoy that battle even if I have to repeat it because its challenging. That being said, I would love to see more enemies in the mojave lvl scaled to the player, not bulletsponges like fo3 ghoul reavers or albino radscorpions, but maybe like the ghostpeople from Dead Money. I know there are people who have different views about the difficulty of the game and that buffing every single npc in the game is not the solution, but maybe adding some additional buffs to some npc's in the very hard difficulty like some % of DR(like veteran rangers), some +DT Bonus, more hp(my courier has about 400 hp at lvl 35, most of the human enemies I find have barely 1/4 of that),better weapons or something. Sorry for the wall of text, and I would like to hear other players thoughts about this.

Why spend time on #2/3?
I don't get it. :confused:

If anything #1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 are pretty much complete, they need some tweaking here and there.
But at least they exist.
#6 and 7 are nonexistent.
For us at #5 there is no more.
No way to up the difficulty.

So I don't see why they should focus on #2 or 3.

[edit]

#6 and 7 does not need to be balanced for "everybody" either.
They're strictly meant for the experts of the game.

If the enemies become very powerful, to the point of overpowered, then #7 is doing it's job.

[edit]

Anyway, I don't think that the enemies should be tweaked to #6 or #7.
That belongs to a new difficulty setting which does more than "Give enemies more health and damage."
But overall the enemies should be tweaked somewhat.
Not to #6, but at least to the edge of #5.

@ Lady no I have to play against them. They all have stats just like NPCs 15 players on each team and I think 30 teams. Every player is differet. I only make the best better, but I could make everyone of them better.

FO would be eaiser for combat sliders because in instead of 15×30 different player you have

NCR
Trooper
Ranger
Ranger vet
Heavy Trooper

CL
recruit
prime
vet
and a few others

Bos
Paladin

Give me control to change specials, guns,ew,melee,hp on just the main fighters and I ll be in heaven dieing all the time.

Weak groups like powder gangers or the kings I could care less about.

I d take a bos Paladin and make S-7 P-7 Agility -7 Luck-6 Forget the other specials then skills explosives- 75, ew - 97, melee- 63, hp- 375 Then what ever dt they come with in game. DT shouldn t be changeable in my plan. Those stats with multiple bos in a bunker would be a tall glass to order. Have fun with that.

@gabriel77dan - I do understand what you're saying/wanting in terms of multiple difficulties & having a difficulty level that still presents a challenge even when you're familiar with the game. But your or my idea of a #7 may not be what someone else's idea of a #7 should be.

But if you don't want bullet sponges, I'm still not sure how to go about it in a manner that seems fair and takes into account multiple playstyles & preferences. Simple combat difficulty alterations - vs. 'eating/bullet weight difficulty' - are all going to be in the realm of either: increasing enemy hit points, increasing enemy damage by a certain multiplier across the board (done in NV), or reducing player damage by a multiplier (done in NV), or a combo of both (NV's method).

The result of the later two is an effect of feeling like enemies are bullet sponges to a slight degree and a #7 would make that worse. I don't personally find NV to be all that "bullet spongy", unless you like ultra-realism, as some do. Compared to, say, shooters or even Diablos, it's barely spongy at all heh.

Now in terms of NV game itself, they could have a #6 and #7 that only increase the damage enemies do to you without decreasing your own damage. That might work...but would it seem cheesy? I think in order to not use the simple damage multiplier path, they'd have to create two sets of base weaponry/armor whatever lists w/different dmg. numbers - one only applying to the player (and companions perhaps), and another for the enemies, which isn't how NV seems to be generally set up at the moment. Maybe in the next game...

---------------------------

@II The Rook II - with all that kind of tweaking control you want...save for a PC and get the editor. Seriously. I'll be surprised if any RPG is going to give players that kind of in-game control anytime soon. It's just not going to be seen as a priority to take the time to implement. Perhaps one day.

Some examples of how it could be done:

Nightstalker poison duration is doubled and it stacks.
Bark scorpions have a chance to paralyze what they attack.
Bighorner has their health increased by 300% (They have waaaaay to little health as it is, they need this buff.) and they have 100% knockdown effect. (Which stacks, so one hit from a herd means death.)
All ghouls inflict radiation on the player. (Glowing One's AOE attack gives +100rads/sec) (Each ghoul hit gives +15 radiation. Reavers give +30 per hit and Glowing One's give +40 per hit.)
Legion Recruits and Explorers gain +10% running speed and attack speed. Decanus and Prime get +15%. Centurions and Veterans get +20% and Frumentarii and Praetorian Guard gains +25%. (Hey, they're meant to be tough sons a [censored]es right?)
NCtRoopers get 2 stimpacks to use and they regularly use Psycho and/or Steady.
Khans get +10% attack speed, +25% reload speed and +5 hidden DT. They can also use Psycho and Med-X.
Fiends Have +25% damage resistance, +25% damage, +60 max HP and reduced weapon spread. (Chem addicts remember.) Actually, since Fiends are suppose to be psychopaths who tie dismembered bodies to the walls I think it's fair to give -2 Nerve to companions when in Fiend presence.

This is of course a very, VERY quick, crude and sloppy pitch.
Point is, the only way to up enemies is not just by +DAM and +HP.
Can be done with tons of other things too.

@ Lady that s what I was saying I m not sure if its possible in a giant open world rpg with all kinds of items. They have been doing it for a long time in sports games, but they are not as an extensive game world. I m not a dev, so I don t know how hard it would be to implement customization of NPC soilder combat stats.

What ever they are at now is way too low. I should die 25 times at least trying to kill Ceaser.

@gabriel77dan - Ah, I get ya. Basically you want a mod. :teehee: Which would, of course, definitely work. The problem I think from a developer point of view is that such specific changes to specific things requires 1-more play testing/balancing time and 2-often might need even more playtesting/rebalancing every time they release an "official" patch that alters other game mechanics. (They decided to do a hardcoe "mod" concept instead I guess) I'm sure they spent some time testing for the massive weapon changes in the recent patch and even more would delay such patches even longer. The simple difficulty tweaks are ones that you can put in the original game and never have to rebalance because of a patch again. Mods are different beasts. And by the time gamers know what they'd like in such a mod...well, again, it's easier/cheaper to leave it up to people like Arwen & the editor. You might like her difficulty mod, if you could use it...sounds pretty crazy+configurable. (edit:disclaimer - I'm not a game developer, I'm just guessing at possible reasons..)


Eh I'd disagree. That may be what you want from difficulty, but I'd be content dying just a few times...as long as the combat felt challenging in the process, rather it being pure random luck or skill of twitchy fingers.

Still don't like that we have to rely on mods in order to have challenging gameplay.

Like 15 years ago dieing 25 times in a video game was nothing. Slowly over the years devs have listened to the people that were saying "too hard" 15 years ago there was none of this. They put a game out you learned to play it or you got crushed.

Today things have changed in all game types rpgs on line shooters. It s a buisness I guess and selling copies to everyone is the name of the game.

I can assure you that 15 years ago dieing 25 times to kill Ceaser would have been excpected. The game doesn t make me go kill Ceaser and raze his base camp I do it because I choose to.

Games are just different these days.

Yeah, agreed. There's quite a few games I would have liked more if they had been more difficult (for me), and others I didn't even buy because reviews/friends said they were easy. I bumped up NV to VH before I'd even reached Novac the very first time, and like you, I don't consider myself any more than an average player or something. Even 15 years ago, my favorite games of the period all came with map/level editors...and it was the making your own maps that made the game so replayable/fun for years and years. Not the original pre-made campaign. I guess I'm used to the concept that that's just the way it is, for now.


Some of those games tho were artificially/cheaply difficult, imo. Ridiculous timed events/puzzles, seemingly random crushing blocks that you'd have to try 100 times before you figured out the "single, one, proper" way to run under them. Those were annoying to me. But yeah, games are definitely different these days. Gaming has become big business instead of a niche market. Shooters, RTS, RPG's...I'm not sure I'd quite call it 'dumbing down' - just that niche games don't often sell enough to take a large financial risk on I guess. Kind of like the US movie industry maybe. Have to look a lot harder to find them, and then the companies that made them often go broke/fold before long.

Enemies are too weak, and by this is mean, they dont need more health, they need to be able to take more of yours with every hit. The PC should have less health than we do right now, and enemies need to be able to crit more often.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I was playing NV yesterday, and i run IWS and Classic Fallout Weapons for NV, combined with my mistake of getting Boone and pissing off the Legion, a Legionary Assassin squad showed up, most werent very well equipped, but the Vexillarius had some sort of semi-auto .308 combat sniper rifle, and by the time i had put my sights on him, he had beaten Sunny Smiles and Boone, then, right as i began to fire, he one hit killed me from 50% hp, it was instantanious, the death ragdoll was just a limp headless body in the sand, flopped over bits of skull. Was brutal, reloaded the quicksave and managed to kill him with my last Stealth Boy.

#2or3 is "normal" where the developer would think as appropriate for players on first playthrough. Like LadyCrimson said, one's #X is different from another person, but at least on #2or3 it could cover most people's #2~5.

No to mention players can adjust difficultly with handicap; have you?

Wow, this thread is depressing. *sigh* I thought New Vegas... didn't have difficulty. Except once in ceasars tent, I went in with me, Arcade, and EDE. Only had a ranger sequoia. I was using a cow boy build, and fairly frail. Took a crap ton of stims and micro but I won through. I think I only had 25 bullets going into the whole camp too. Killed everything. So depressing, I just picked up the enemies guns and blasted away.

People who think dying randomly and unpredictably is fun should play some other game.

You could easily do other things to make it more difficult, and not resort to random deaths.