Fair enough.

I like all of them. Each game shows us a different breed of Khajiit and Argonian that we haven't seen yet. I just wish that Bethesda would include all of the breeds that we have seen in new games. Example: in The Elder Scrolls V we would see all the types of Argonian and Khajiit shown in previous games.

I find the notion that a character can't be intelligent and "human-like" without actually looking human in appearance far more demeaning. In Morrowind, despite some Dunmer who would tell you otherwise, they never felt any less intelligent than the other races, if anything, their less human appearance made them stand out more, giving them a small amount more character, making them seem a bit more like actual character rather than mindless information terminals that happen to peak and are human shaped. It still didn't make much difference, of course, since mostly they still had the same boring things to say, but it helped a bit.

And in any case, the races could do with a bit more to distinguish them visually anyway, going back to a design closer to Morrowind for Khajiit and Argonians would just help to accomplish that, so that is what I want to see. boots and helms don't have any effect on it, in any case, in Morrowind, modders were able to remedy the boot thing, and as far as helmets go, it's not like they couldn't wear helmets, they just couldn't wear full helms, so if there are just more open helms, it won't be a problem, and Bethesda still let them wear full helms in Oblivion, though the parts that would effect helmets didn't actually change much between Morrowind and Oblivion.

At the very least, though, Bethesda NEEDS to bring back the claws, not having them doesn't even make sense, many Khajiit are said to forego weapons in favor of their claws, how do you do that when you don't have any claws?

I covered that in the initial post already, they CAN wear "boots" with the "beast legs" as mods for Oblivion showed very well, they even modded tail armor into the game.


Sorry but personally i always find the "so they're better to relate to" a kinda weak reason. They don't HAVE to look more human just to have more appeal and it does work, i mean a lot of people could relate and feel with the aliens in "District 9" and they're the limit of what you could still call humanoid (save for vaguley human body built and the eyes they had nothing human bout them at all).
I'm not trying to criticize you on that but just saying i find that reason to benot good, they shouldn't attempt making them easier to relate to by making them more human but by giving them something you can actually feel for, something that should count for ALL characters in the game. Otherwise they just jump on the "only humans can be good guys" cliche that plagues a lot of fantasy.

While I can't speak for District 9's aliens since I haven't seen it, this sentiment is what I had meant to get at, I don't need characters that look human to be able to relate to them, I need characters who give me a reason to care about what they do, what they have to say, or what happens to them, and just making them look human isn't going to do that. Lots of first person shooters have you fighting random, nameless human enemies, and they're human, they have human-like figures, they talk like humans, their faces are those of humans, yet you don't feel anything over killing them in large numbers except that sense of satisfaction you get from slaughtering large amounts of enemies in video games. This is not a problem, of course, It's kind of the point. The reason you don't care about killing these characters is that you haven't been given any reason to care about them. You don't know who they are, where they came from, or why they want to kill you beyond the fact that they were given orders or they're being paid for it or something, if you want people to relate to your characters, the most important thing lies in how they are written, not how they look.

I really don't know what to say to the second paragraph.

Exactly, i often had no problem mowing down masses of human characters since they gave me NOTHING to care about but i often felt horrible about killing non human characters, specially even if the ONLY reason given me why i should kill them was "because they're not human"...

Actually, the "technical" reason is the only reason...more builds = more effort. All races had the same body in Oblivion because it was easier.

That's a problem of the organisation, not one of technology.

This I want more types of per beast race. Would Orc's count too because they come from goblins I think.

Only if you believe out-dated Imperial Propaganda. The orcs and goblins are nowhere related. Goblins are...just stupid gobbos. The orsimer (orcs/pariah-folk) were aldmer who followed Trinimac, but when he became Malacath, they too changed from aldmer to the orsimer.

They're not really considdered a beast races and as far as i know they DON'T stem from goblins in TES but are a transformed elven race like the Dunmer.
Though seeing different versions of Orcs would be interesting too.

The only different versions of orcs I could really see is adding scar and tattoo textures to them, or if parts of their tusk teeth have been broken, tied together with a string because it broke, or a metal cap to replace a part of a tooth that had been broken and lost.

Morrowind style. It's a beast-race. It should be beast-like. Not human with scales/fur and a tail.

You should be able to choose from the more humanoid of the Khajiit lattice groups and the Argonian Tribes. However, Alfiq, the Mane, Senche, Cathay, and all Raht forms of Kajiit should be excluded. The Toad argonians, the winged argonians, and the Nagas argonians should all be excluded as well, as perma-flight, minute size, or being 8 feet tall and poisonus could all mess up game mechanics.

I have never heard of toad or winged Argonians... Where did you read about them? And I don't think that height would interfere with game mechanics. Hil the Tall, from, I believe, Skingrad has to be near eight feet tall. And the Altmer models are probably near seven feet tall. Aren't the Suthay-Raht breed of Khajiit the ones that we see in Morrowind? If so, then why should Raht forms of Khajiit not be included?

This is from the UESP. before you flip out, The Imperial Library only has the Gamebook description of each race.

I meant to say Pamar I think.

i dont care all tht much, but if they go back to MW way then as u said, the animations and stuff need to be improved, which is of course a given. also, they would have to make sure tht beast races can wear all types of equipment.

There a lack in detail that even mention the existence of these "tribes". In a way, I think the author of The Argonian Account could mistake them for "type" of Argonian, but in reality, they could be much different and a whole different specie on their own.

You were probably thinking of the battlecats and the tremendous-in-height Khajiit weren't you? Maybe the "toad-like" Argonians aren't small like an actual toad. That description could have meant that they just looked like a toad or were amphibious, warty or ugly in appearance. And a winged Argonian sounds really cool.

Edit: Those "tremendous-in-height" Khajiit are the Senche-Raht. They are twice as tall as an Altmer and weigh as much as fifty. Imagine fighting against them in a The Elder Scrolls game!

The Argonians in Morrowind looked pretty stupid. It may have been the animations though.

I voted none because I would like to see them less humanoid than OB but less beastly than MW (and its horrible walking animation). An hybrid of both would be perfect.

It was the animations. That weird waddling the beast races did in Morrowind really sapped the 'cool factor' from them.

Animations, the really long legs that end up looking kinda of silly, and being pretty skinny are my beefs with the MW argonians. If they made them like a more beefy, didn't have such a funny way of walking (moving their legs side then front), and change the leg ratio a bit would have been nicer.

I liked the Morrowind style, they are "Beast Races".