I'll definitely agree with the first half of that statement (I'm sure the humans have some magically talented soldiers, and we know human battlemages exist), but when it comes to the second half, I disagree, because I'm only using the game-stats to support previous lore. The Altmer are consistently described as being the most magically talented race. They should have no shortage of potential wizards.

You see, I'm just not so sure about the MANY years part. Certainly, magic is a skill, and only PCs can learn it in a second, but I'm not sure where the support is for the idea that magic is particularly difficult to learn, compared to other major skills. Consider J'Skar from oblivion (he's the one from the Bruma recommendation quest). He's clearly quite young, and yet he managed to perma-100%-chameleon himself. Sure, it was an accident, but it takes a lot of power to make an accident like that. Mirabelle (the paranoid restoration specialist in skyrim) offers expert training, belongs to the quickest-aging race, and looks fairly young. You certainly can spend your whole life trying to master it, but you can do that with any skill. Martial arts, for example, can be a lifetime pursuit, but common soldiers are produced easily enough. It's possible I'm just not remembering something, but I can't think of any reference to people having to spend years and years of practice to throw their first lightning bolt (which is all a military really needs from its wizards). If only battlespire had been a much more boring game, perhaps we would know more about how magic training is really supposed to work.


You do realize that they didn't literally form a big arm-linked ring around the city, right? Surrounding a city just means having all the escape routes cut off. Now, translating the in-game geography of the IC into the "real" geography of it is... complicated*, but I think it's fair to assume that the Imperial forces placed their armies on the same main island as the IC, based off the fact that the Altmer didn't just make a naval retreat, since Mede never took back the waters. That means they were more-or-less directly outside the walls, and would only have to place sizable forces outside the large gates (which we don't have a good count for, assuming OB is wrong in it's display of a three-gated IC). The rest of the perimeter would be covered by much smaller forces. And the forces gathered for the BotRR were the entirety of the imperial forces. Everyone from Hammerfel (except for the 'invalids'), every survivor from Cyrodiil, and everyone from Skyrim.


No. What I'm suggesting is this:

The Dominion had:

1. A home guard.
2. A navy (which was never defeated)
3. Forces in Hammerfell. A substantial minority of their invasion forces, which they were allowed to withdraw after the second treaty of Stros M'kai
4. Forces in Cyrodiil, occupying the at least three other cities (Leyawiin, Bravil, and Skingraad were certainly occupied, but there's no definitive list) that were certainly hostile to them, and required a significant military presence, which they were allowed to withdraw after the White-Gold Concordat was signed.
5. Forces occupying the IC at the time when it was suddenly attacked and taken in less than five days.

Only #5 was destroyed. #3 was heavily harassed and forced to retreat on occasion, #4 faced opposition but always overcame it, and #2 & #1 were always safe (#2 saw battle, but never lost).

The sum total of the troops in #4 and #5 likely exceeds the number of troops in #3, but the number of troops in #5 alone is almost certainly less than the number of troops in #3. That the Altmer weren't able to gather an army large enough to swing the battle in their favor doesn't mean they didn't have those forces, it's merely reflective of how amazingly fast the Battle of the Red Ring was. It lasted less than a week. That's just not enough time to gather those forces.

The heart of Mankind is to do what appears most profitable. Sometimes, even if you have the stronger army, what's most profitable is to retreat. After the sack of the Imperial city the Dominion was hugely over-extended. They were trying to conquer two whole provinces at once. They would gain nothing by keeping up the fight after the BotRR. Their forces were scattered all over, deep in enemy territory. They would have almost certainly lost many battles if they kept fighting, and what would they possibly be able to gain? I sincerely doubt that Leyawiin or Bravil could be profitable holdings for them any time soon, considering how hostile the populace would be. By signing the concordat, they were able to re-organize their forces at home, recuperate, anolyze the mistakes they made, and gather inteligence on the enemy.

I'm not quite sure what that parenthetical remark is supposed to mean, but it sounds like your saying that the empire's forces consited of

1. A reserve, which was larger than:
2. The legions, of which less than half remain.

I don't see any reason to believe this, and, furthermor, it makes no sense. Why wouldn't the empire call upon these reserves during the months when their homeland was taken from them? Where would these reserves be located? It can't be Cyrodiil (It was otherwise occupied), it can't be Skyrim (the civil war would make no sense that way) and it can't be southern Hammerfell (it was otherwise occupied). Does the Illiac bay contain some huge troop reserve for some strange reason?

*Seriously, at this point I have no idea what to make of the IC, especially since both of the times it's traded hands in The Great War make no sense if the game is to be taken as an at all serious model of what it looks like. Instead of surrounding it on all sides, why didn't they just occupy the one big bridge to the mainland. How the hell did either the Dominion or the Empire storm the incredible island fortress we see in game? How the hell was either conquest of the IC a battle, and not a protracted seige?

Well, out of the three millitaries (Imperial, Aldmeri and Argonian (unless you count the Khajiit, but they're just puppet states)) I'd rule out the Argonians.
Sure, they conquered a bit of Morrowind, but that was centuries ago. Things change. Just look at the British Empire in 1812 and look at it now.
Also, people always say that the Argonians would be awesome guerillia fighters. This is true, but that does the Argonians no good if they're fighting outside Argonia.

Between the other two... there isn't much to go on.
But, I doubt that the Aldmeri troops wear "real" elven armour, those troops in Skyrim wear a different type of armour which has similiar stats to leather. I think this is probably the standard. This means that the Aldmeri infantry is, for the most part, not all that heavy.

Also, in the Imperial Legion quests, soldiers wearing heavy armour are rarer than those wearing the lighter stuff. Could mean that the Empire doesn't have much heavy infantry either.

That right there is the key word. Just because they have the potential doesn't mean they had the time to work on it. You can bet that's part of what they're doing now since the WGC gave them a breather and they've lost a good portion of them. The statement all altmer are potential wizards is disingenous though.

J'Skar may be young, he may not. We don't know. As you said, the discovery of that spell was an accident.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/manual-spellcraft
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-breathing-water

There are several examples of Conjuration gone wrong. Books, in-game(Morrowind does).
If you don't understand the nature of the school you're learning, it tends to backfire or plain not work. A lot.

That'd be even worse. Now those forces can be attacked on all sides given counter attacks from outside.

I agree on the depiction of the IC in the book though. How the hell are they crossing all that water? Jonna who took all the brunt of the counters was to the south which would be near the waterfront district entrance, and the bridge was to the west in front of the Talos District from what I remember. That still leaves the entrance by the prison and the entrance by the university.




"The capture of the Imperial City itself and the complete overthrow of the Empire thus became their primary objective of the next two years."
"In 4E 174, the Thalmor leadership committed all available forces to the campaign in Cyrodiil, gambling on a decisive victory to end the war once and for all."

You're saying that their primary goal, their primary army meant to take on several legions and crush the remnants of the empire, had less numbers than the single Hammerfell force which dealt with local forces and a few "invalid" legionaries. Mmhmmmm.



Yeah you completely missed the intent of that statement. The reserve troops of the Thalmor in Tamriel not the legions.

Something to think about: we've not really seen non-Thalmor Dominion soldiers yet.

Just want to say a quick note regarding the depot thing: The journal of an ex-Aldmeri Dominion battlemage talks about how he had a nightmare about raiding an Imperial supply depot, before his force gets destroyed by Alduin.

In a way, though, the Thalmor completely achieved their goals: The banning of Talos worship as the first step towards the completion of their mythopoeic goals. They probably don't really care that much about not outright winning the Great War, because their plans are measured in hundred of years. They can just wait around until circumstances suit them. Unless the Dovakhiin decides otherwise, I suppose.

Imperials can use magic. They are the race to make the best battlemages with clothed in heavy armor and armed with destruction and restoration.

The Imperial battlemages can offer the Imperial ground forces support with destruction or healing. That is probably why the Imperials won on the ground but not at sea. They are best adapted to ground warfare

The sload hold the title of best bioterrorists. And like today's terrorists, they were hunted down.

They shot their troops over the walls using catapaults. Duh.

I'm with Cecilff2 on this. The Dominion is weaker than they are letting on. I'd say they are more or less even. The Dominion has the strongest navy. But their still stalling right now. If they were confident in their ability to topple the empire, then they wouldnt hesitate. They're buying time trying to figure out how to fix the situation.

I don't think the Dragonborn really influences the Politics in Tamriel significantly, maybe in Skyrim he can but not anywhere else. The Hero's in the Lore are usually responsible for stopping some unknown threat. I used to play Total War games/mods, so Im interested in army compositions.

The Third Empire was one of the Strongest Empires ever, it lasted about 600-700 years before its collapse bringing peace and order to Tamriel. The strong man power with the Imperial Legion, Fighters Guild Reserves if they need them, Standard Imperial Battle Mages, Regular Mages of various types, Specialized Battle Mages who are probably the strongest in the Imperial Legion who wear Glass Armor.

I would imagine the factions who previously had their own armor sets for their best troops had the best armies, Elven Armor, Orcish Armor, Ebony for the RedGuard and Glass Armor for the Imperials. I guess the standard troops of other armies just use standard Iron/Steel Armor with their own unique colors and different helmet sets.

I don't think the Nords have a major army though they do provide good Imperial troops, they don't even like Magic. Ancient Nord Armor is probably from the time of the Nord Empire which lasted about 200-300 years was when they were powerful. The Storm[censored]s were pretty imposing for a rebel force, Im sure they must have had some huge battles with Imperials that Dragonborn did not witness.

(Imagines a total war mod)


Overall, I think the Empire is still the strongest, there is probably Veteran Generals from the Oblivion crisis in that army.

Not exactly. The Imperial army issues its standard equipment to each solider, and won't even so much look at you if you are not in uniform. Throughout each game, we have always seen the legion in either their standard steel armor, or like the leather we see in Skyrim, nothing else. Glass, ebony, would be far to expensive to mine and manufacture for standard issue gear. That, and the legion would never issue armor based on your race.



Skyrim has always been depicted as the strong arm of the empire, even without magic. Also, keep in mind that the Nords distrust of magic is a fairly recent thing. Once upon a time, there were plenty of Nords that respected their own mages.

This is assuming that any Dunmer or Altmer standing generals managed to survive the Oblivion crisis, and the ensuing collapse of the empire, AND the Great War. While its certainly known that there were plenty Mer that served in the legion, I can't recall any of significant rank.

A better question is which army is the most powerful in the whole of Nirn? There hasn't been a shred of lore from any neighboring continents, including Akavir, in a very, very long time. If their are any spies on Tamriel at all from any agressive empires overseas, the political division on Tamriel would look quite inviting.