Hi all,

I am a lvl 65 mage and I am currently tempted to carry a backup weapon for backup use.

Usage of this backup weapon would include things like a power sneak attack with a poison on the weapon.

Since I am a mage (never invested in stamina), it has to be a 1 hand weapon so that I can do a power attack with it.

I have maxed alchemy and enchanting and I plan to max smithing as well to improve the weapon I will decide to use (and my future light armor).

1) What do you think is the best backup weapon for a mage (daggers or etc) and which material would you prefer (glass vs daedric vs other) ?

2) Which smithing route should I take ? I plan to wear light armor, but I could still go the heavy armor path in the smiting tree and get the ultimate light armor (dragonscale) and daedric daggers. However, that would prevent me from upgrading any light armor that is not dragonscale (no upgrade on glass or etc) or any light weapon.

The daggers look like good weapons as the UESP mentions that they have the highest DPS. However, the war axes have the Hack and Slash perk to cause bleeding, which I do not know if it is included in DPS they were talking about. On the other hand daggers are very light, which is very useful both when they are not used (can take more items in my inventory) and when they are used (power attacks use less stamina, which is kind of critical for a mage). Glass daggers are more lightweight than daedric, so I guess that advantage is more present for glass daggers ?

You're level 65, so you are probably doing alright?

I'd go for a dagger, best one you can find then enchant it to make it more useable at your level.

sneak-dagger

Use daggers with the weapon speed shout.

It seems daggers have won this tread: so which dagger do you prefer as a mage: glass dagger or daedric dagger ? Glass is lighter so it requires less stamina for a power sneak attack, however it makes a little bit less damage. If I want to improve a daedric dagger, I have to go the "heavy" route on the smithing tree, to get my light armor at lvl 100.

How big is the difference of damage between a glass and a daedric dagger once you improved it with smiting (boosted by maxed alchemy and enchanting) and some poison for a power sneak attack ?

I usually go with the glass one

Probably a mages best secondary is:

(in order from best to worst)


1. A Dagger

2. A Healing Spell

3. A Staff

4. A Sword


*Personally, I'm a spellsword, so it's sort of reverse for me. XD.

As for shouts:

(in order from best to worst)


1. Ice Form (it's really good when it's maxed out. Lets you get a few good casts)

2. Unrelenting Force

3. Become Ethereal (helpful for tanking as a mage)

4. Dragonskin (Breton only, but you can absorb spell damage. )


Keep in mind, this is how I do it. So yeah

glass dagger enchanted with paralyze and absorb magicka

Dagger may not be the correct choice at all here. Does your mage have any sneak perks invested? He needs to dole out 4 perks for daggers to hurt more when sneaking. 2 perks will put a large multiplier on the swords. Anything less than assassins blade and swords do better.

Not to mention- if you had a sword with say a paralysis enchant and a frosty enchant it would be an excellent "stay away from me" weapon. Much better than a dagger for the open as well.

So in summary. If you have 4 stealth perks and took assassins blade- dagger will do

If not, then definitely sword > dagger.

High dps doesnt mean much when you have to get so much closer (and thus risk more damage- to yoyr squishy mage) in the daggers case.

A note on materials: if you have enough perks to do a line to the top of the smithing tree- then those points are better spent in stealth. Weapon material means diddly when your 15x multipliers hit instead.

Daedric dagger and no sneak perks << steel
Dagger and assassin blade.

If you already have enchanting, then tere is no need to get smith armor perks either, just enchant a bunch of smith boosters, make a nice alchemy pot, and smith any armor you want past cap.

Mine just uses Bound Sword.

I'll go against the grain and say warhammer (or any 2H weapon). The reason for this is because you can still get the double bonus for a sneak attack and you can also use it to block during melee combat.

Oh- a minor sidenote concerning the very poor DPS statistic:

This number assumes that you are swinging as
Fast as you can, and that all your shots are in range and connecting... Lets think about that. When do you just stand in front of say- a melee enemy and just have a standing normal (not power) attack contest??

I guarantee none of you playing master do, and I second that you guys are probably dodging in and out of range all the time and executing power attacks.

Once you factor these things in, swing time really only matters after a stagger, or on a debilitated enemy (which isnt a risk anyways)

What I am saying is: DPS is bunk.
Oh it looks great on paper- but "paper tigers" never work right in practice.

definitely dagger out of an rp view.

Mehrune's razor or lots of different staffs. And I agree for RP purposes a dagger is the best choice.

Anything with a powerful Paralyze enchant on it.

Definitely a staff, although a bound weapon is good, too.

Boomerang. Works nice for when your Magicka burns out.

You do know you don't need to have the smithing perks to use weapons and armor? I only ever take the arcane and steel smithing perks, to overpowered otherwise.

Considering you use enchanting you can create a strong dagger using fortify smithing enchantments and potions, you can also make armor that meets the cap with the perks I have, so you really don't need all those perks.

I read about half the thread and I have different input than what I've seen so far. Daggers, but not for damage, enchantments or DPS: for poison.

You said you have Alchemy maxed out, so consider making some awful "Weakness to Magic" poisons and let the spells fly.

Also, staves are always, always good, especially for a mage. My mage has two Fireball staves, the Staff of Magnus, and a Dragon Priest Staff (essentially a staff for Wall of Flames). I don't resort to them often, but when I do, they get the job done incredibly well.


Talk about OP xD That would be a mage's best friend!

The glass dagger with paralyse seems to be winning the tread! You guys are also right when you talk about RP: a dagger suits a mage pretty good. The poison is nice as well. I was also surprised to see a couple of you did encourage me to go for staff: I have never tried that !

@Cooler3100: I didn’t think of the best shouts ! You’re right: Ice form, Unrelenting Force and Become Etheral seem to be the best shouts for a mage ! (time for me to try getting those to the max). I am a high elf, so I don’t have the Breton special power. Still I got my very own high elf power which is useful when I remember to use it.

@Udey: 1) didn’t realize I could smith any armor I wanted past the cap with alchemy and enchanting. Trouble is that I kind like the Archmage’s robes: the hooded version allows to wear a circlet as well, so it makes it pretty good: do you still think I should leave that behind? I mean: archmage’s robes give a total of 75% spell reduction cost over the magic schools, as well as adding 50 magicka and 100 regeneration magicka. To compare this with the best gear I can enchant, I get 2x*29 = 58. My thought was that maybe I could get dragonscale boots and gloves and keep the archmage’s robe + circlet setup ? In that case I won’t be able to reach the cap, but maybe I would still get some good defense?

2) about dps: you’re right, dps isn’t everything as you can’t stand there and bash as much as you can as a mage. However, a dagger is also useful to paralyse a lot or to affect the ennemy with a lot of poison. I guess I will have to experiment with a dagger and try a sword if I am unsatisfied.

@Bacillus anthracis: I’m not sure, but as far as I know it seems impossible to do a power attack with a warhammer with only 100 stamina (I’m a mage), since the lightest warhammer weight 24

@bobjim123: I do know that smithing perks are not required for the use of armor, however I kinda like the archmage robes, so that would require me to get the best possible boots and the best possible gloves (dragonscales, boosted), I guess. For the dagger boosting with enchanting/alchemy/smithing, it’s kind of an RPG habit to get the max possible, however I am starting to see it might be overpowered here.

@ResidentPianist: well, I have maxed the “potion boosting” side of alchemy: there is still some “poison boosting” perks that I did not take. However, I am currently considering taking them to do “weakness to magic” on especially powerful enemies as you suggested (quite tempting). Normal poisons could also be useful in a general context as well.

Dagger with a high Absorb Magicka/Health or Stam. Poison it with a Slow poison so you can get out of that melee range and blast from a distance.

wabbajack wabbajack wabbajack (but that is more in-line with my tendancy to take chances so might not be your perfect secondary)