Sorry, just looked it up, and didn't realize that the two games were so close together.

You never really come across any NPC that uses magic to its full potential (or stealth for that matter), but a quick paralyse spell also puts paid to the DB. Not to mention the security of the Arcane University; try and get in without the recommendations. No amount of stealth is getting you in there.

The Mages Guild doesn't discriminate either; you don't need to learn a single spell to become Arch-Mage.

I second this. Detect life = see assassin coming from a mile away. Although a good assassin should be quick enough to dodge a slow moving fireball, so fry their internal orgins with a lightning spell.

Mages, Fighters, Dark Brotherhood.

Mages: Casting shield and healing spells + destruction + life detect = win.

Fighters: Probably since they're not lunatics who go mental about people practising magic outside of the guild, and also killing people for practising "necromancy".

Dark Brotherhood: A bunch of lunatics who murder people for money.

Again, how exactly can a Detect Life spell discern the difference between an assassin and a normal person? Or are we just proposing the mages kill everyone?

We're proposing that exact statement: they slaughter anyone they can, whenever they can.

So it's less of a "fight between the four" and more of a "Mages' Guild rampage".

Not completely inconceivable though that the Dark Brotherhood could strike up a deal with House Telvanni for CE resist/absorb magicka enchantments, then the mages couldn't touch them. It's a win-win partnership.

Yes something like that, but not from start just what I would like it to be.

But what would the Telvanni want from the DB?

Oh wait, scratch that.

1)Mage's Guild (think Gandalf, yes i know he is not in TES)
2)Mage's Guild (Fighters guild are just a bunch of mercenaries (supposed to be anyways)
3)Dark Brotherhood (add obvious statement here)

the mages guild could just use their altars of enchanting or spellmaking to create something with reflect damage. that should take of the lot of em :chaos:

As stated above the Telvanni or any rouge wizard (Mannimarco to name one) could give assistance to the Dark Brotherhood (example) to wipe out the Mages Guild and everyone else for that matter.

In a fight, the Dark Brotherhood would win through their zeal and the use of subterfuge. No other guild employs so many different types of individuals as the DB. Whether fighter, mage, or thief, if you can kill, you're welcome within their ranks.

The Mage's Guild is the most noble, obviously. They're dedicated to making magicka more accesible to the everyday man, which makes everyone's life easier. Granted, not everyone adheres to the guild's founding ideals of nonelitism, but the guild itself exists as a true force for good in Tamriel. The Fighter's guild is just a neutral mercenary force. They adhere to the law, but only because they have to while working in Imperial jurisdiction.

The DB is the most infamous. Really, there's no competition for this one, besides maybe Blackwood.

Sorry, but I have to call BS on this. The Mages Guild in NO WAY OR FASHION makes accessing spells any easier. If anything, they have been continuing to make it harder, and are a bureaucracy than anything. I don't even need to look at the previous games, OB gives me all the ammo I need. They force you to travel to every single city in Cyrodiil and get recommendations from every leader. To the common man, that's a hard task to accomplish, and only the most ambitious would go through such trials. Not to mention they removed teleportation, so it's not like some novice or associate could pay some guild guide to warp them to another hall. No, they have to walk through hostile country. And if that was not bad enough, each city really only excels in one school of magic, further making it even more difficult to become a well rounded wizard. And if that was not bad enough, you can't access any custom spells or enchanting devices until you get all your recommendations and are allowed into the university. And that's just OB alone. I'm not even going to touch DF or MW.


No one in the Mages Guild, except the Ald'rhun chapter who offers to teach reading and writing to common citizens, adheres to the guild's founding ideals. It was originally made to allow those who can pay to come in and learn to be a mage. Hell, the founder left the guild and was thoroughly disgusted with the guild since it pretty much became almost as elitist as the damn Psijiics. The guild is a bureaucratic blob that's becoming more and more restrictive. Not to mention there are plenty of MG members who are not so noble, and have quite the chunk on the shoulder.

har! The Vivec and Balmora chapters easily took jobs from criminal organizations to act as enforcers and assassins.

Everyone saying that the Mages' Guild is easily better than Dark Brotherhood seems to be (willfully?) ignoring the fact that the Dark Brotherhood has all kinds of members, including mages. Not to mention they have, from an observational standpoint, far more powerful items at their disposal. Not to mention, again, there are always ways around a mage's artillery, the most obvious being plain old magic absorption or magic resistance, but also elemental resistances that can even be covered simply by race (fire for Dunmer, frost for Nord, for example). Mages, to my understanding, aren't just wells of untapped energy. They have their limits, and no amount of magic will stop something they can't see -- even if they used detect life, there is, as mentioned before, the matter of discerning between friend and foe, and actually having to be focused in the general direction of the assassin. I don't know about you guys, but even with Detect Life, I wouldn't know I was about to be struck if not for the combat music.

And where is this proof?

It's all opinion anyway! You're all wrong. You're all right.

DB would win in a fight, hands down. If you had a group of mages walking along the road, and a group of DB assassins that wanted to kill them, theres just about nothing the mages could do to stop it. That purple detect life could could be a deer. Or a patrolling legion soldier. The mages wouldn't figure it out until all of them are either dead or dying from arrows to the chest or slit throats. (Because detect life only works when you're looking everywhere, it doesn't show you whats behind you :slap:)

Too bad that the Dark Brotherhood stands as the most infamous. These opinions are only based on rumors and superstitions.

Although it hasn't been recorded, I wouldn't be surprised if many evil nobles were assassinated by the Dark Brotherhood, with some goody two shoes paying them.

And do you remember Rufio in Oblivion? He was a rapist who killed his victim after being done with her. What would her father do? Sit down and cry? No, better call the Dark Brotherhood and have payback.

Same thing with Valen Dreth, the prisoner. Both deserved the wrath of the Dark Brotherhood.

The Mages Guild, or Traven more specifically, decided to ban Necromancy even though it has been legal for ages. And he decided to persecute (and execute) those who dared practice this art. If he had not banned Necromancy, would have Mannimarco decided to rise against him and destroy the Mages Guild in Cyrodiil? I believe not. By banning Necromancy and executing those who practice it simply because he did not agree with it and, thus, leading the Mages Guild to its own destruction by doing so, I believe the Mages Guild should be considered infamous.
Traven's motto seems to have been "I don't like your music style. Die!"

Well that's the thing, they have no qualms who they kill; they're cutthroat assassins trained not only to slay nobles, knights, bards, even emperors, but also each other when necessary, but will do it for a price and they're quite good at what they do. That right there is what makes them quite infamous.

Mannimarco have been on the hunt for both the Mages Guild and the Psijic Order (probably) as far as I can remember.
So I doubt he would have waited longer for it, he has no emotions what so ever. He's a former self of himself, made sense?

This is based on my own preferences and opinion thou, but I think it's quite obvious that he has no intention to let anyone live unless he has use of it for the moment.

1) mages guild if the game had a better a.i. also because of the array of spells they have

2) fighters guild they are loyal and most of the time do the job right rather than killing innocents and taking hallucinogenic drugs

3) thieves guild many people know about the thieves guild whether or not they think it is real where as the dark brotherhood is a well kept secret

DB would prob win in a conflict between every1. They would be good at all sorts of things and jsut dominate. Tht said i would think it would be kinda random who would win between every1 but the TG.

they were gonna slaughter the blackwood company because theyre cheaper and get all the jobs (but then they found a real reason)
and when they dont have jobs they go out and annoy bartenders, drink beers without paying, and scare away customers, instead of just doing something else
on top of all of that, theyre mercenaries, just like the DB. they go out, do something come back and say "money money money" hell they even sent me (the champion of cyrodiil at the time) to go out and deal with rats! (but it turns out it was mountain lions)
besides, its an opinion thread, no flaming and bashing is neccessary :foodndrink:

The mages guild would destroy all the the of the other guilds brute force can't deafeat upgrades and summons and the theives guild wouldn't even fight back they would just run.

Well, if we are talking about a fight on the battlefield with two battling armies, than i think the mages guild wins all the way.

I consider the Thieves Guild (OB) to be the most noble, since they?re not involved in any murdering, intriqueing or anyything like that.

For infamy the DB, because the killing to them is not just some kind of service to Sithis, but mere fun