the thieves guilds blood price would hold them back in a fight, hehheh

Well, let me ask you this: would spell-crafting and enchanting be made more accessible to Tamriel at large without the Mage's Guild? Sure, one must be a member to make use of such services, but in Morrowind (at least) it's as easy as saying you want to join, joining, and then speaking to the spell-crafter. Your obligations to the guild end there. I don't know, but it sounds to me as though any unwashed heathen off the street can stumble in, join up, and start making use of their services from the get-go. Now, the Guild from Cyrodiil is a little stricter in their admissions policy, and for good reason. With the Guild currently washing its hands of Necromancy, it's important to test potential members' loyalty before they're given access to the Guild's stronghold at the University. Again, however, it technically requires no money or magickal aptitude to advance to the point of being able to access the University and its services. The members of the Guild may not be universally benevolent, but I maintain that the Guild stands, and continues to stand, for the equal access to Magicka for all the people of Tamriel.

Are the Mages perfect? Far from it. However, when it comes to the other Guilds, I feel that the Mage's Guild alone stands as the sole Guild with a noble purpose, whether that purpose is espoused or ignored by its members.

I don't know what game you're playing where the presence of the Mage's Guild doesn't make magicka more accessible to the player...without them, you'd just have the occasional second-hand magick shop, who are just out to make a Septim or two. The MG may charge for their spell-creating services, but without them, who else would provide it? Not everyone is able to stock a Wizard's Tower, or something.

As for the Fighter's Guild comment, what are you disagreeing with? It seems like we're both on the same page about them being a morally ambiguous mercenary force. Their desire to follow the law depends solely on their proximity to Cyrodiil, I agree.

Pray, if it's not the Mage's Guild with the most noble goals, then who? Faceless Bureaocracy or no, are the other Guilds any better?

Well, when I read the OP, I understood the fight as being an entire guild vs. another entire guild (all out war). Besides, I usually find that baddies don't ever seem to stay organized long enough before their own selfishness, greed, and their own agendas start interfering with their overall progress as a unit. Bound to cause some infighting.

To evacuate an area in an orderly fashion always saves more lives than a chaotic/ panicked croud where everyone is selfishly trying to save themselves.

You don't even need to join to get that kind of service. I'll just find some other enchanter willing to take my drakes/septims. Did it all the time in MW through the other factions and some freelancers. Plus, if you want to learn better skills and spells you do need to be a higher rank in the guild, and that does go with the other guilds and houses too. Oh, and the MG actually does require its members to pay dues, but that seemed to have been forgotten in OB.


Yes, by forcing each and every potential mage to walk all across the country, risking life and limb just to learn the next school. If they had guild guide services and diversified staff, I wouldn't be complaining. But they don't. Again, if one wishes to become a real mage, meaning you have to get into the university, you need to travel all over Cyrodiil, risking your life each and every time to a long distance. Something that would be expensive and dangerous. How does this build loyalty? To me, it would just make me hate the school more because I know have to travel the country side, paying for some body guards to make sure some group of bandits don't decide to jump me, or I end up being kidnapped/killed in the middle of the night. Hell, I'd join Mannimarco immediately if he had better rules and standards than the Mages Guild. And just so you know, necromancy =/= evil. What Traven did was criminalize necromancy in the guild, despite necromancy being LEGAL in Cyrodiil, and there are necromancers that work FOR the empire to study anatomy and such. They also make good deterrents of criminal activity.


Tell that to the Telvanni and other hard working benevolent mages and trainers who try to set up legitament schools and classes outside of the guild; they're hunted down by the guild. Hell, if the guild doesn't even need you to be skilled in magic, why call it the mages guild? If all it requires is to do chores, whether it be through a sword or spell, there's no real point to it.


It HAD noble goals when it was first created; magic lessons and spells for anyone as long as they could pay for it. Want to be a better mage, then you join and learn even bigger cooler spells. That was it was, and that's being abandoned to make it a monopoly, regulate the living crap out of it, and force its students to needless tasks in multiple cities without any help from getting to point B from A.


Oblivion. I can't get jack crap unless I join them


The Telvanni, freelance mages, enchanter vendors, mages working in the shops willing to help. MW has plenty of people willing to teach me magic for a price. Abet, it would be better if I joined either Telvanni or MG, but the option of not joining them just so I can learn magic in a decent way is still there.


Like I said earlier, I find the knightly orders to be the most noble, but I can't vote for them. I figured the robin-hoodesque side of the TG to be more noble, because it's not steeped in corruption, and the TG is against freelanced, violent, and greedy thieves.

The most powerful of all? Mages... Even an assassin or an army of assassin can't stand up to a flame tempest...

The Most noble... None

The Most Infamous? The Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild

Yep, the Thieves Guild in Cyrodiil are Robin Hoods. And I hope only the Thieves Guild chapters in Cyrodiil have that... "mentality".
I much prefer the Thieves Guild in Daggerfall, where it's truly an organization of thieves, rogues, ruffiands and prosttutes.

They capture children for ransoms, control the smuggling business and they are not afraid of sending though guys to "dispose" of freelance thieves who dare threaten their business. (They also have a tendancy to send their members steal ivory, for some reason. LOTS of ivory... )

Oh well, hopefully, someone will assassinate the Gray Fox and all the higher members who believe in such silly mentality of "steal from the rich and give to the poor" and bring back the TRUE Thieves Guild.

"We gave you money, Marrell Greensmith. You did not respect the rules we had set for you. See your kids? Make sure you have the money in two days or you won't see them again."

Not

"Oh, Marell Greensmith, you have a debt, yes? No worries, the Gray Fox will take care of that. We have your protection. Now how about some tea?"

Interesting, these forumers are causing you to accept their ideas. Next time you will probably say that the DB are way more evil

P.S.: the first post was taken from page one.

But it wasn't completely unique to Cyrodiil, the MW thieves guild was also pretty tame, but still pretty much a thieves guild, and it had the robin hood branch started by Gentleman Jim Stacey. I'd be more inclined to say the MW branch was a halfway point of the Cyrodiil and DF chapters. Of course, I doubt the TG is unified cross regionally, but I'm not discounting the possibility of a general guidelines.

Also, the DF TG wasn't THAT cutthroat. Yeah, they did do kidnappings and smuggling, but they were also there to make sure the rate of crime was set at a good level, so the economy wasn't that harmed, but the members still could prosper. They were not afraid of hammering down on freelancers, and greedy and/or dangerous thieves.

Ah yes I forgot about the Bal Molagmer quests.
I also wonder if the Thieves Guild is indeed unified. Because if we look at how the Guild behaves in Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion, all three act with different views.

Daggerfall are a bit more harsh and direct, while in Morrowind they are in-between and in Oblivion they protect the poor. It will be interesting to see how they will play out in the next Elder Scrolls.

For my example, I tend to exagerate alot.
But I was making a direct reference to a quest you can obtain from merchants in which the quest giver's child has been taken captive by the Thieves Guild.
If you don't give the ransom and decide to attack them, you learn that they've put the child in the middle of a dungeon.

That's a very "ruffian" attitude for me, putting someone's child in a dungeon for him to rot.
And that makes you wonder: What did the quest giver for having his child captured by the Thieves Guild? Surely the TG were not doing it for fun. So that's why I took the example of someone who owes debts to the Thieves Guild

But yes, you're right. They are also there to make sure their members don't go over the top. And with the freelance thieves/rogues, I assume they make sure they don't mess with their business again. (Cutting hands and fingers for example. But maybe not killing them)

Woa, you're reading too much into the animosity the FG had for the Blackwood Company. Certainly, they were quite interested in putting them out of business, but nowhere is it indicated that they condoned wholesale slaughter! Why, the final quest only has you removing a TREE from Cyrodiil - only the Blackwood Company chose to oppose you with deadly force. As for the FG members cutting up in the local taverns - the FG leaders made it quite clear they disapproved and went so far as to send someone to put a stop to it. As for asking for fair compensation, they have a right to make a living like anyone else.

In a fight between the four, who'd win? Key word there is fight not sneak attacks or assassinations. I dont think the DB could fight against a direct attack from mages or fighters. They rely on the element of surprise. Without it what are they? I dont know if you remember but in morrowind they crumbled from a direct attack.

on an open battlefield (going towards fighters vs mages right now) if the mages used spells with a large area that did damage over time...oh, the fighters guild would be slaughtered. not to mention the mages guild is full of adepts at alchemy, think of all the potions.... and poisons

1. Mages Guild hands down. Army of mages summoning junk and hurling lighting, fire, and ice...or maybe all 3! plus they could just heal each other and get rid of poisons the DB would try to throw at em. Those silly DB who try and go invisible mages got their Detect spell. And a spell just about everything like iphone apps.

2. Hard to say if we are going by OB then I have to say TG its the whole Robin Hood story.

3. DB, paid assassins who will kill anyone for the right price.

Depend on what you mean by a fight. I think people are assuming a bloodbath in some field somewhere. The DB would never fall for such a thing. High ranking Mages and Fighters Guild members would have theier throats cut the night before.

Never having played Daggerfall though and from what's been written here I like the idea of its thieves guild better. The OB Thieves Guild would be stuffed in a fight.

You know its not hard to tell the difference between a deer and and a soldier on horse. Im sure they would figure out that its a least a person.

They would never fall for such a thing? Why not? Its happened before. Does no one remember Morrowind?

Yeah, they attacked you in your sleep, and kept doing that. You just happened to find their hideout and were able to get the majority of them there, and their leader, and that's when they stopped.

They didn't amass some army to try and stop you, they sent agents to assassinate you while you were at your most vulnerable; sleeping.

i really dont have a strong opinion about this but ppl whove said assasins would get pwnd in a fight, and i think someone used the ex. of DB in mournhold and how they attack you in their sleep and then u go waste em, im pretty sure youre supposed to be able to beat them. just like any other enemy in the game.lol but now i re-read ur post and i think you were saying tht the player gets them by chance. anyway i say DB would wwin in a fight, even in an open battlefield. like tht sick ass archer in OB, he could snipe and kill you in ur sleep.

1.Dark brotherhood: you get some good items and you get to kill pople.
2. mages guild: they are theremto root out evil. while the fighters guild is just a bunch of mercs.
3. More people know about the theives guild and are scared of it. rather than the dark brtoherhood.

In a fight as in organization vs. organization, if you leave out the Battlemages, I find the Mages Guild to just be a bunch of scholars. The Fighters Guild would have the advantage of numbers and quicker training than the Mages Guild, even if the Mages Guild individuals are more powerful than Fighters Guild individuals. Though the Dark Brotherhood could equally have a chance at them both if they slice the leader's throats before their hideouts were discovered. Thieves Guild are a bunch of wusses, why are they on that first question?

Noble? Mages Guild. Scholars tend to be more highbrow than mercs, crooks and murderers. And DB is by far the most infamous.

dark B would pwn em all

1) Fighters' Guild
2) Thieves' Guild
3) Dark Brotherhood, obviously.

thieves guild would steal all there weapons! lolz

Dark b wold just kill mr G fox then all the other thieves would just panic :ninja:

i going by oblivion b/c that all i have

1)darkbrotherhood no one can hit them

2)the tg they give to the poor and helps stop muder

3)darkbrotherhood the just madmen who kill (i am glad they accepted me)