The big problem with the way things are going.

Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:48 am

Face palm.
Your straight up WRONG on this. If you enter a dungeon the enemies lock at a specific level. So you can indeed go get stronger and come back and own the dungeon. Again Skyrim is not oblivion and I'm tired of reading the same mistakes


I know now. Three people already correct me.

But how about the NPCs?
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Carlitos Avila
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:02 am

I do remember endlessly searching for quiet objectives in morrowind. When I think about it I remember it as kinda fun. When I finally found what I was looking for, I felt a sense of achievement. This could be nostalgia though because when I talk about it , it sounds very frustrating
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Big mike
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:41 am

That is also untrue. The fact that you spent roaming and questing took you 10 hours to get to that part is not how it is in truth. The Greybeards summon you exactly an hour into the game after you've defeated your first dragon near Whiterun.

Unless you don't go and defeat the dragon near whiterun. Which is probably what he meant.

Right, while I agree that both Oblivion/Skyrim have lost features since Morrowind (or gained in my place seen as I played Obvilion then Morrowind) but gameplay sure as hell has improved since then. The main reason I could never finish it and resorted to reading the wiki was because combat was terrible and the stealth mechanics got on my nerves. Now I'm not going to say anything about Skyrims magic system because I haven't properly messed around with it. But Oblivion magic system is way more enjoyable than Morrowinds despite not having as many spells as the latter.

I'll agree with you on the questmarker though. I really did enjoy morrowinds system of dealing with it and I wouldn't mind going back to it (perhaps a mod will get released which gives directions in your journal.) The fast travel system you can just avoid. Only time I fast travel is when I died miles away and i'm not running there again or when it's a back and forth fetch quest.

I disagree with exploration being less rewarding. I don't go wandering around caves and dungeons for loot. I go wandering around for the sake of wandering around. 50 hours in and i've made literally no progress for anyone. There is nothing more I love is stumbling onto a mission involved cave half way through and just going with the flow.

Also didn't Morrowind have a slight problem of becausing rather easy after level 14 (I saw alot of people comment on this over the months) sure there were some tough enemies left but the normal enemies found out and about you ranked them and left little challenge.

In conclusion in my opinion Morrowind = Obilvion = Skyrim.

Also Skyrim has way more Voice actors than oblivion did. As in complaining about the number of actors is no longer a valid reason.
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Holli Dillon
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:22 am

I am enjoying Skyrim immensely. I've logged a lot of hours already, and intend to log even more next week while I'm on vacation for the holiday. However, I agree with many of the points in the original post. What I believe it all adds up to is a loss of depth. Skyrim itself is an open world, and yes you can go out and explore and find many adventures. But, many of the questlines themselves feel as though they've been borrowed from a linear RPG like Dragon Age. One objective, one way to achieve it, and everything you need to know is right here in your journal.

Were there mechanics in Morrowind that could have been better? Yes, absolutely.
Were there aspects of Morrowind that led to a lot of frustration? Yes, absolutely.

But overcoming that frustration was what made Morrowind the legend that it is. That's why people are still playing and modding it today. Dragon Age 2? I beat it in less than a week, started a second character, and was overwhelmed by the redundancy. So far the only frustrations that I've met with in Skyrim are that it's too easy.

Should I be able to just stumble into the Dark Brotherhood and be invited to join their ranks at level 5? Sure, of course - if I can prove that I'm worthy of it in spite of my level. Hearing a rumor on the street should lead me to seek them out, not put a quest in my journal with a map pointer to tell me where to go.
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Karine laverre
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:09 pm

I didn't read all of the replies, but I wanted to offer a couple of comments. I apologize if others have already stated these points.

First, you write well, and I appreciate the effort you put into your post, as well as the intent to start a dialogue. You stated a couple of misleading points, though.

Morrowind, while excellent, had scaling of both loot and enemies. By the time you got to the teens with your character, this was very apparent (at least if you went back to dungeons who had already cleared, or if you cleared dungeons with a different character at different levels).

Also, Morrowind explicitly stated that you were "special" or "born to greatness" right from the opening movie, and even more so when you talk with Caius in Balmora. After all, the Emperor pardoned you, sent you to Morrowind, and even ordered some funds to be put at your disposal, all because he thought you might be the Nerevarine of legend. Same with Oblivion. Frankly, Skyrim handles the "unique" aspect much better because it offers you the chance to have your character behave in a way that indicates that your heritage is as much a mystery to yourself as any else. You can also choose to be supremely confident in your unique destiny. However, such choices are yours in the dialogue, not explicitly stated by some powerful NPC.

For mages in Morrowind, the road to increasing skills was pretty much potion making and/or enchanting items, coupled with spell making and practice casting in safe places.

For both Oblivion and Skyrim, PC players can simply turn off the compass and quest markers. Quest marker off is an option in the menu in Skyrim, although the compass is not (for some unfathomable reason).

Regarding examples such as the Dark Brotherhood being obvious in Skyrim, I think you will want to go back to an intellectual review of the lore of the world as it exists in contemporary Tamriel. The Empire is falling apart and barely exists as such. Elves of all races are viewed very differently now than in the past. Khajit are more closely allied with the Elves than with the Empire and humans. The Argonians are much less involved with the Empire, and the Redguard homeland of Hammerfell is no longer an Imperial province. The latter are openly hostile to the Empire due to feeling betrayed during the event of the Great War. In this environment and socioeconomic, political context, it is very easy to see that the Empire is facing an era of upheaval and unrest, just as it has done in various periods of its history. However, prior periods are not experienced by players; they are only read about in the lore. In Skyrim, you are living in such an era, and everything around you reflects this fact. In such a setting, it is quite plausible that factions such as the Dark Brotherhood have become far more open because they have the genuine power. This is true in certain areas of real life and real history, too, of course. They do not need to be secretive, or not anywhere near as secretive as in the past.

The context of Morrowind is far different than the context of Skyrim. What is most important is that the world accurately reflects the events of such contexts, and it does so in both cases.

Having said all of these points, you offer some good input regarding certain concerns about requiring more cerebral effert on the part of players. My thought is that this was considered and was a design decision, similar to how mounted combat has been tried and tested since Oblivion, but has always been taken out despite player complaints from certain quarters. We have to remember that just because something isn't in a Beth game doesn't mean that it was not considered, perhaps even attempted.


If you actually played the DB quests you would fint out that its repeated numerous times that the DB is just a shadow of its former glory and that Skyrim DB residence is the SINGLE one that is left,and yet there it is,200 meters from one of Skyrim biggest towns,just down the road.Ridiculous..
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MR.BIGG
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:35 am

It was an interesting read and I skimmed threw some of the shorter replies in this thread.
The thing is, I see many unique thing happen in this game that for whatever reason people don't see or for that matter mention , the following is what I observed in this game sense playing I thought that was cool and uinque.




- I cleared out a for with bandits, a few months later I go past said fort and whats this? Imperials moved in.

- I passed another fort a few times thinking (yea, I should get on that one sooner or later) and then passed it again one day to see npc's fighting it out.

- I seen a troll thinking "yea, I will get to that guy , but this is a timed quest I have to get there before tomorow" , come back, troll desimates the country side seeing dead animals and towns people dead.

- A dragon attack! Dam, near a town, doh! 3 people died, saved town , people thanked me.

- The world is a vampire, damit I couldn't cure myself fast enough, now I thurst, (few days past) now I REALLY thirst and everyone hates me/scared of me. not sure what to do, I figure it's time to feed, I use my ablities and find a lonesome farmer to feed on while she slept, mmmm good! next day Husband upset that his wife was svcked dry. Now mind you I know on this , that sometime people will loose someone they know and won't re-act, that is dissapointing, but then again writting all that script would have been crazy.

- Went to a pub, sat down waited for wench to serve me. No one came, disapointed that I still don't get served in a game I goto the barkeep and order a drink. End up in a fancier pub plenty of wench servers around, damit someone will get me a drink! I sit down and figure, ok if they don't serve me , this place is going down. SHOCK! Someone comes up and askes me what I would like! Woot, about time, go to another pub later and the owner tells the work, "You got a customer! so and so, get to work!" as soon as I sat down and waited apx 3 sec.

- Questing in a cave, I wondered, what if I just threw or shot something , maybe the guy will walk in view, I can hear him around the corner, then I can snipe him from shadows for bonus dmg! Sure enough it works!




While there are a few things I agree with the OP on, I think many just look past these interaction in the world because "they are use to them" , while someone as myself , whom hasn't really played past versions of this game (I played a few hours but gave up because of the complexitity and time needed to play to get anywhere *IE the time issues people mention in this thread) really never got into them. Skyrim thou, is so real (graphically, combat etc) and I am so impressed that I keep going and going. Oh btw... I don't use ports unless I get so frustrated on a fetch mission ((IE very low quest that usually are can u deliver) , beyond that I track it on foot all over skyrim.



PS. there is one thing I don't care for thou, I would like to organize my quest page my own way, for instances, on this character I am playing, I will NEVER join a particular faction or do particular quest. So I would have liked a place to sort quest that I don't care to do because you can't del quest in this game.
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Kirsty Wood
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:35 am

Oh man, anything worse than the OP are all the people blindly agreeing with it...


Look, Morrowind is a great game, but it IS highly overrated. I'm sorry, it's not god's gift of RPGs, it has serious flaws. Oh no, I'm not talking about its own flaws, like combat, how characters stood still all day, making the world incredibly static. No, I'm talking about flaws that are associated to Oblivion and Skyrim, even in this very thread.

Morrowind had a pretty strong level scaling going on, so this "fear of danger" during exploring is not any different in Oblivion, especially in Skyrim. Why do you think all those Blighted creatures appeared out of nowhere? Why are Daedra suddenly appear on the middle of the road after level 15?

So finding the guilds were more satisfying in Morrowind right? Yeah, the Morag Tong was hard to find, especially after you find the door marked MORAG TONG GUILD HALL. Let's not even make me start on the thieves guild... "Hello, Welcome to this shady pub, Wanna join the thieves guild :teehee:"
Yeah, you could easily just join their guilds in Skyrim, it's not like you have to take their attention or something...
Remember Oblivion, how you had to join the thieves guild? Why you just entered the guild hall and... oh wait, there was no guild hall, the whole thing was in secret.

But yeah, your main point is Morrowind requiring more "intelligence". That's just wrong.
Is it intelligence to follow step-by-step direction for the town next door? Is it intelligence to ask the first random person the same thing everybody in town knows and answers exactly the same? Is it intelligence to walk up to an enemy and spam the left mouse button until one of you die?
No, there were no more intelligence involved in Morrowind than Skyrim. READING IS NOT SMARTER, it's a different medium.
You did not HAD to read every skillbook in the game to learn the skill, you did not had to read thousands of books to get a reference, even if you found a quest-specific written journal, the quest log would still update, giving you a short version of what you supposedly read, but hey you have to read it too and there are no arrows involved so it must be more intelligent.


Seriously, this is just old man talk. Glorifying the past, and getting half of it wrong to boot, ignoring the bad and putting forward the good. The new generation? Bah, they're just dumb kids, doesn't matter if the problems you complain about were always present even back in the day.


And when somebody says "Divinity 2 is a better RPG" he obviously doesn't know what he is talking about...
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Naomi Lastname
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:21 am

That is a good point. The average age of players is increasing, and so are their real-life obligations that reduce the time available for playing games. Therefore games that can be played in short sessions while still accomplishing something will naturally be more succesful, and the industry responds to that demand.


This is a very good point. I started with Arena, loved Daggerfall to death, played Morrowind to death, enjoyed Oblivion but thought it a big step back, and am really enjoying Skyrim.

But the truth is - I would not have the time to play Morrowind let alone Daggerfall now. Life has moved on and like a lot of people I also play an online game extensively.

I can dip into Skyrim for 30 minutes and get something done. I have a large, beautiful world to explore at my leisure and npc's with enough character and depth to provide an imagination RP hook. And I can look forward to customising the game with mods.
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Lady Shocka
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:37 am

You can play skyrim exactly the same way you played Morrowind. You don't need to use the fast travel. The nostalgia you're feeling is based on the newness that MW had. Now, you EXPECT. It's this expectation that's the problem... not the game design. When ever you expect something to behaive a certain way and it doesn't, you get disappointed. That's not the game's fault. It's your fault for expecting it to behaive the way you want. Play the game. Enjoy it. Or don't. But quit telling everyone what you expect in a game. It doesn't matter a lick.


Are you a god? Psychic perhaps, if you presume to make judgements like that about other people. Enjoy your watered down experience.
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Isabel Ruiz
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:01 am

I didn't read all of the replies, but I wanted to offer a couple of comments. I apologize if others have already stated these points.

First, you write well, and I appreciate the effort you put into your post, as well as the intent to start a dialogue. You stated a couple of misleading points, though.

Morrowind, while excellent, had scaling of both loot and enemies. By the time you got to the teens with your character, this was very apparent (at least if you went back to dungeons who had already cleared, or if you cleared dungeons with a different character at different levels).

Thanks very much for the thought out reply!

I think first of all, I am aware of the very minor level scaling within Morrowind, but I want to point out that items were static, as were the majority of dungeons. In this way, as a player I was assured of an always interesting mission into a dungeon. Unlike now, I am always sure that I'm going to get a final chest with an enchanted weapon or armour piece of my level bracket, 200 gold, two potions, an enchanting scroll and a soul gem. Without question. I feel like that surprise, along with fast travel, has killed much of the drive behind the independent questing that ate up so much time in Morrowind, and provided some tense atmosphere.

Also, Morrowind explicitly stated that you were "special" or "born to greatness" right from the opening movie, and even more so when you talk with Caius in Balmora. After all, the Emperor pardoned you, sent you to Morrowind, and even ordered some funds to be put at your disposal, all because he thought you might be the Nerevarine of legend. Same with Oblivion. Frankly, Skyrim handles the "unique" aspect much better because it offers you the chance to have your character behave in a way that indicates that your heritage is as much a mystery to yourself as any else. You can also choose to be supremely confident in your unique destiny. However, such choices are yours in the dialogue, not explicitly stated by some powerful NPC.

Fully aware of this too. I think the big thing is that the nature of the text in Morrowind meant that the lines were delivered far more convincingly and with greater expansion and levity than some of the voice acting in Skyrim (Oblivion was not great for the voices - especially the elves). Similarly, I had to work my way up, gruellingly, through very satisfying missions for all the guilds in Morrowind. You could watch a very satisfying progression that was paced really well for the fame and prestige you were meant to be achieving. I don't want to spoil the companions guild, but, yes.

For mages in Morrowind, the road to increasing skills was pretty much potion making and/or enchanting items, coupled with spell making and practice casting in safe places.

What I needed to clarify was that I don't think Morrowind is the best game ever. There were a lot of things that made me rage. My particular frustration in this case are the bigger meta game choices like scaling.

For both Oblivion and Skyrim, PC players can simply turn off the compass and quest markers. Quest marker off is an option in the menu in Skyrim, although the compass is not (for some unfathomable reason).

I'm a PC player, and I'll definitely be using the mods, however, I was really addressing the ideas behind these decision by the game company. At the end of the day, the thinking that has "streamlined" the travel system is going to trickle down to other places as well, which is what I'm worried about.

Regarding examples such as the Dark Brotherhood being obvious in Skyrim, I think you will want to go back to an intellectual review of the lore of the world as it exists in contemporary Tamriel. The Empire is falling apart and barely exists as such. Elves of all races are viewed very differently now than in the past. Khajit are more closely allied with the Elves than with the Empire and humans. The Argonians are much less involved with the Empire, and the Redguard homeland of Hammerfell is no longer an Imperial province. The latter are openly hostile to the Empire due to feeling betrayed during the event of the Great War. In this environment and socioeconomic, political context, it is very easy to see that the Empire is facing an era of upheaval and unrest, just as it has done in various periods of its history. However, prior periods are not experienced by players; they are only read about in the lore. In Skyrim, you are living in such an era, and everything around you reflects this fact. In such a setting, it is quite plausible that factions such as the Dark Brotherhood have become far more open because they have the genuine power. This is true in certain areas of real life and real history, too, of course. They do not need to be secretive, or not anywhere near as secretive as in the past.

That's a nice explanation, but it doesn't mend the fact that the entire thing was really, really parochial. There are a million ways they could have executed it, but if they were aiming for underwhelming, they definitely hit the nail on the head.
The context of Morrowind is far different than the context of Skyrim. What is most important is that the world accurately reflects the events of such contexts, and it does so in both cases.

Having said all of these points, you offer some good input regarding certain concerns about requiring more cerebral effert on the part of players. My thought is that this was considered and was a design decision, similar to how mounted combat has been tried and tested since Oblivion, but has always been taken out despite player complaints from certain quarters. We have to remember that just because something isn't in a Beth game doesn't mean that it was not considered, perhaps even attempted.

I understand this too. I am aware I have high demands for games, but I really feel that the TES series has actively been stripping back and renaming, and shortening things as a point of advancement. I don't feel like I'm getting more and more into the world (which you would expect with the technology nowadays). I know the world is much prettier and more organic, but the meat of the experience for me isn't expanding. I think there are several things that should have been introduced that could have been expected in Skyrim that just weren't there, but this isn't the place for me to talk about them!
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Wane Peters
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:25 am

I completely agree with the OP.

I just wrote on another thread:

You cant say: this dungeon is too hard to me, Ill get stronger and come back later.

Because if you get 3 more levels and come back, all the enemies in that dungeon are now 3 levels stronger too. What makes little sense for a RPG.

Whats the point in getting stronger?




don't think this is true
have found some dungeons i had to bolt out of because there were deathlords and other dangerous things kicking my behind
a few of them I went back at a higher level and returned the favor XD

and even in the wild there seem to be random enemies like frost spiders or ice wolfs who are far tougher than most
can easily kill frost spiders with a single blast of fire yet some require far more than that and do a lot more damage as well

I do sort of agree with the morrowind map system being better
I loved the navigation aspect of it, people giving you a physical description of the path you needed to take really did a lot for the immersion/adventure aspect
but I also don't think this loss isn't as great as some make it out to be
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Amy Masters
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:51 am


Do you agree? (And thanks for reading until the end!)



Short answer: No.

I completely agree with the OP.

I just wrote on another thread:

You cant say: this dungeon is too hard to me, Ill get stronger and come back later.

Because if you get 3 more levels and come back, all the enemies in that dungeon are now 3 levels stronger too. What makes little sense for a RPG.

Whats the point in getting stronger?

The only satisfaction is your own sense of improvement, because to the rest of skyrim you still are the same.


Also, I can say that the NPCs on Skyrim are way worse than the NPCs on other modern RPGs. They have no memory, they dont react to your actions properly, they dont recognize your improvemnet.

Its impossible to built your character history in this game, because no one in the world seems to care. You can literally save the world, not even the main NPCs will say thank you.


Yes you can.

Dungeons don't totally scale with you. They lock. They have level ranges. Meaning you indeed can come back later. My differing experiences with the Falmer are proof of that - struggling and dying early in the game, and churning through them like warm butter later in the game.
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Mariana
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:38 am


That is also untrue. The fact that you spent roaming and questing took you 10 hours to get to that part is not how it is in truth. The Greybeards summon you exactly an hour into the game after you've defeated your first dragon near Whiterun.



Were you there during that 10 hours? I didn't think so. Yes it is true you plum!

Actually, the call comes when you return to Whiterun having defeated the dragon. Not while you are still out at the watchtower. Point is, you don't have to follow the quest immediately, and I wasn't even trying to avoid it.
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Richard Thompson
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:45 pm

Oh man, anything worse than the OP are all the people blindly agreeing with it...


Look, Morrowind is a great game, but it IS highly overrated. I'm sorry, it's not god's gift of RPGs, it has serious flaws. Oh no, I'm not talking about its own flaws, like combat, how characters stood still all day, making the world incredibly static. No, I'm talking about flaws that are associated to Oblivion and Skyrim, even in this very thread.

Morrowind had a pretty strong level scaling going on, so this "fear of danger" during exploring is not any different in Oblivion, especially in Skyrim. Why do you think all those Blighted creatures appeared out of nowhere? Why are Daedra suddenly appear on the middle of the road after level 15?

So finding the guilds were more satisfying in Morrowind right? Yeah, the Morag Tong was hard to find, especially after you find the door marked MORAG TONG GUILD HALL. Let's not even make me start on the thieves guild... "Hello, Welcome to this shady pub, Wanna join the thieves guild :teehee:"
Yeah, you could easily just join their guilds in Skyrim, it's not like you have to take their attention or something...
Remember Oblivion, how you had to join the thieves guild? Why you just entered the guild hall and... oh wait, there was no guild hall, the whole thing was in secret.

But yeah, your main point is Morrowind requiring more "intelligence". That's just wrong.
Is it intelligence to follow step-by-step direction for the town next door? Is it intelligence to ask the first random person the same thing everybody in town knows and answers exactly the same? Is it intelligence to walk up to an enemy and spam the left mouse button until one of you die?
No, there were no more intelligence involved in Morrowind than Skyrim. READING IS NOT SMARTER, it's a different medium.
You did not HAD to read every skillbook in the game to learn the skill, you did not had to read thousands of books to get a reference, even if you found a quest-specific written journal, the quest log would still update, giving you a short version of what you supposedly read, but hey you have to read it too and there are no arrows involved so it must be more intelligent.


Seriously, this is just old man talk. Glorifying the past, and getting half of it wrong to boot, ignoring the bad and putting forward the good. The new generation? Bah, they're just dumb kids, doesn't matter if the problems you complain about were always present even back in the day.


I agree with everything said here, and I started with Arena on my 486. With regards to scaling, I could care less about the blighted creatures and daedras in the road, it was the level 25+ cliff racers that I hated. A pack of them was harder to kill than the statically leveled Vivec. I remember using dozens of dwarven darts on each to take them out. I kinda miss darts on that note, and I wonder if anyone will mod them into Skyrim.

I've loved all the elder scroll games, but Skyrim is my favorite so far. It combines a unique world like Morrowind with the vastly superior scaling of Fallout (small level ranges on areas/loot instead of full scaling). Every TES game has had some degree of scaling, starting with Arena and it's randomly generated overworld. The scaling in Morrowind was far more obstrusive than it is in Skyrim, and there are some serious rose colored glasses on if you don't see that.
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Cathrine Jack
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:56 am

You can't play it the same way, for all the reasons listed above. Similarly, to never criticise constructively (which I believe I've done) is pretty unhealthy when you're the consumer. Also, it's impossible to play it like MW. For one, I can't turn the map off because nobody tells me where I'm going, ever. Ever. They just say "I"ll meet you at the Shrine", and bam, the shrine is marked on my map 10 miles away and on top of a mountain, and there are many more problems than that (why is magelight in a game filled with dungeons that are never dark enough to need a light?)

And what you've said is true. I expected something that the original (Morrowind) had sold me on. Saying it's my fault because I expected something different is like me going to your house every Christmas and giving you a present when you open the door, but instead, just this year, I punch you in the face. When you get upset, I can hardly say "well, it's your fault because you expected something different."


Horrible anology. Bethesda did not intentionally cause harm to you through their game.

A better anology would be, every year for Christmas, you give someone $50. But this year for Christmas, you gave them a $50 gift card to a specific store instead.
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Alister Scott
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:06 pm

Horrible anology. Bethesda did not intentionally cause harm to you through their game.

A better anology would be, every year for Christmas, you give someone $50. But this year for Christmas, you gave them a $50 gift card to a specific store instead.

Not even more like you've always given them the gift card except this year the store informed them they don't stock the special kind of eggnog they liked anymore. Its' the same store with some new stock, just for that niche group they'll have to find a new holiday drink.
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Daddy Cool!
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:47 am

Nice post OP. While playing Skyrim, I had a lot of ideas about Morrowind floating around in my head, likely due to nostalgia. I actually booted up Morrowind and started a new game, but stopped pretty quickly. The first thing that came to mind after getting off the boat was "Dear god, why is it so...foggy?" The render distance is pretty poor in vanilla Morrowind and after playing Oblivion, you come to expect being able to see vast distances. However, yesterday I was bored and decided to take a look at the Morrowind board here and discovered the the modding community has done some really amazing things. In my opinion, the graphics are, in some aspects, even better than those in Oblivion. After seeing that, I promptly got everything installed, looked for a few gameplay mods, and I'm going to be starting up in Morrowind shortly... I enjoyed more aspects of Morrowind than I am of Skyrim, so by vastly updating the graphics and modding over some of the elements I didn't like(level system, alchemy, ect), I've elected to go back to Morrowind for the time being. I'm by no means saying that Skyrim is a bad game, I just feel that there is more depth, detail, and, thanks to mods, refined gameplay.
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danni Marchant
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:09 am

Horrible anology. Bethesda did not intentionally cause harm to you through their game.

A better anology would be, every year for Christmas, you give someone $50. But this year for Christmas, you gave them a $50 gift card to a specific store instead.

It was an hyperbolic anology suitable to the argument he gave me, an argument I can use to tell anyone who is dissatisfied with anything, ever, that they are wrong while not providing any actual reason.

In any case, I have to go to bed.

As a last thing to say, I think many people are confusing "I thought the brain required to work out where to go and what to do and who to speak to", and "the static objects and the feeling that the world wasn't tailoring itself to you in a huge, obvious way" with "omg morrowind is the best game ever, best graphics, best alchemy, best leveling, best combat, best everything etc etc etc". I'm not saying that, I'm aware of the floors, but I don't consider not being spoon fed quests and rewards one of them.

Similarly, I'd like to point out that if I was to ask you to name the most satisfying achievement in your lifetime, it would probably be along the lines of graduation, birth of first child, marriage, etc etc. Those are all fun and they are all, also, hard work. There is a theme running through this thread that goes something like "that was fun then, but now, I don't know. We've moved past that." I'd like to submit that there are still some human beings who enjoy being challenged, and that the challenge magnifies and even increases the satisfaction of an experience, and is what makes it memorable. In fact, look at Minecraft. If you pitched virtual-manual labor all day with little to no reward and brutal death punishments with awful graphics, I'm fairly sure they'd laugh at you. However, what Minecraft proves is that people actually working for a goal, and they pay collectively millions of dollars to do so. (I'm not arguing for Minecraft in TES, make no mistake, but I'm illustrating that big business often has it wrong). The big problem I have is that if you want quick release, in the history of everything TES has ever been, it is not a quick release game. It's like buying a Jeep and pushing for a Porsche engine. For me, a person who has greater patience in a few other areas that some might not, it's hard to watch what I consider to be a devolution of a brand I love.

Anyway, as has been said here, and I know this, the video games industry is in its infancy. It's very new, and as such, there are no properly defined market areas or brand stabilities beyond the Nintendo churn. In fifty or so years, much more work on this, academically and otherwise, and I'm fairly sure the video games industry will level out to provide games for all players.
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des lynam
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:39 am

The fact that the OP says anyone who loves Skyrim is doing so "blindly" is absurdly arrogant and I stopped reading there.
I loved MW, hated OB, yet i'm in love with Skyrim. Skyrim is Skyrim. Deal with it.
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Alexxxxxx
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:52 am

the thing is, it actually is.



Um, yeah..it is.

Just give me a remake of Morrowind with today's graphics and better looking races.
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Kira! :)))
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:48 am

I agree with you Ope for the most part. All these contradictions about Morrowind lvl scaling, heres how I remember the game, every dungeon was almost unique every so called bandit or smuggler actually had a name you cleared said dungeon that dungeon was empty from then on. Its been a few years but it always struck me how I could almost swear every npc good or bad had a name, other then the guards. Oblivion wasn’t bad I think the over all setting made it bland. Respawning no name enemy’s aren’t bad, scaling them maybe so. If you scale everything as you lvl, then whats the point of lvling? Its ridiculous to be able beat a game at a real low lvl, you could in oblivion how about skyrim? That was dam near impossible in Morrowind. I dont like the over all direction of Bethesda but luckily theres many other game developers out there making rpgs so when I say it might be time to move on no worries for me. Your comment on Bethesda having sold out yes 100% agree. I dont mean to sound like a drag but it all started when they started building tes games on a console and pcs were no longer the target market. I know skyrim was built on xbox360 not sure what Oblivion was built on, oblivion still had a somewhat computer friendly feel. From comments ive read from Pete and Todd it wouldn’t surprise me if one day Beth just stops making computer games, they make it sound like its just some major pain in the [censored].
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Tiff Clark
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:52 am

Here here! I agree entirely and very well put. Thanks for expressing all of this.
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Emerald Dreams
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:20 am

This is a very good point. I started with Arena, loved Daggerfall to death, played Morrowind to death, enjoyed Oblivion but thought it a big step back, and am really enjoying Skyrim.

But the truth is - I would not have the time to play Morrowind let alone Daggerfall now. Life has moved on and like a lot of people I also play an online game extensively.

I can dip into Skyrim for 30 minutes and get something done. I have a large, beautiful world to explore at my leisure and npc's with enough character and depth to provide an imagination RP hook. And I can look forward to customising the game with mods.


I agree. I have been playing the series since Arena. While I do still sometimes continue characters in each of them, I find myself returning to the newest. With all of it's flaws it is still a great game.
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MR.BIGG
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:37 am

Um, yeah..it is.

Just give me a remake of Morrowind with today's graphics and better looking races.


Yeah. Too bad Morroblivion was shut down.

I hope Bethesda will eventually realize the concept as a DLC/Add-on themselves.
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james tait
 
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Post » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:43 am

Just because we're advlts, and we have things to do, doesn't mean that entertainment must become dumb. I don't read dumb books because I don't have the time to read smart ones. I don't watch dumb films, because I don't have the time to watch smart ones. I don't have time to play dumb/er games because I don't have the time to play smart ones.


There is nothing "dumb" about Skyrim.
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Vera Maslar
 
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