Note 1: Please read the post before voting or posting
Note 2: If you think the poll is biased or incomplete please make your own, better poll.
Note 3: I'm aware this issue has been heavily discussed, so please avoid "not this again" kind of spam posts, please.


So far the possible explanations for the merging of cuirass and greaves seem to be:

1. Increasing the number of NPC's on screen: As Matt said in the Q&A: "it renders a lot faster too, so we can put more people on screen". This might be true, but the magnitude isn't clear. I find it hard to believe the removal of one single armor slot frees enough memory to render aditional NPC's, but this is just common sense, I have no proof, of course.

2. Simplifying the game for console players: Let's take a look at some famous console games:

Forza Motorsport 4: 500 cars that can be modified, edited and tweaked to meet your taste and game style.
Pokemon Black/White: 156 new pokemon, 649 in total, with unique abilities, weakness and attacks, and complex breeding.
Fifa 11: 80 leagues, 500 teams with unique kits, 12.500 players, different boot types, body builds, complex player creation system.

The more features a game has, the better. Ask any MW2 devoted fan (65 weapons and 16 attachments) if they would like to have more weapons or attachments or less.

Please stop using this argument, its quite insulting, and makes no sense at all.

3. Requirements of the new Skyrim visual style. Almost all of the screenshots we've seen so far show greave-less characters, and, as Matt said on the Q&A: "This helps create armor styles that have the look we needed for Skyrim. In most of the Nordic designs we created, the upper armor would completely cover the lower armor, making it unnecessary. We get much better visual results combining those pieces"

This makes perfect sense to me, but it doesn't justify the removal of the greaves slot at all. Some armour, even most of it,could use both slots (like robes and those shown on http://www.zonablade.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Skyrim-Castellano.jpg), but this isn't incompatible with some one-slot traditional cuirass or greaves.

4. More armor variation: Again, quoting Matt in the Q&A: "the number and variation types are more than we’ve ever had". This seems quite absurd to me, because having separate slots for cuirass and greaves allows endless possible combinations. I understand many of you consider mix-and-matching armor as "lame", and I see your point, but, as I said before, full body armor isn't incompatible with some one-slot traditional armor. I find this reason a poor justification, poor indeed.

5. Requirements of the new Skyrim smithing system: Again, quoting Matt in the Q&A: "The forge is actually used to create new weapons and armor from raw materials". Hopefully this new system not only gives us a reason to collect those wolf/mammoth pelts and different ore types, but also allows endless customization options by combining pauldrons, skirts, chest pieces, greaves, belts, pelts...

If that is the case... merging cuirass and greaves is great news! why? because we get to customize the whole armor, without limits like clipping issues/size of greaves/type of greaves, allowing us to create truly unique tailor made armor.

I know Matt didn't justify the removal of one armor slot because of this, but it seems to me as the only plausible reason to make such a bold decision besides from option 6... So I'm going to be hopefull and believe this is the correct reason... at least until we know how the forge works.

6. Lazyness / Not a priority. Some of you migh argue that Bethesda is making a huge sandbox quest filled game, and this might mean some details, such as armor slots, aren't a priority. Of course, one-slot armor is easier to handle and design than two-slot armor (clipping, compatibility, design issues...) so this could be the real reason behind the decision too.

Anyway, this is my personal opinion, based on common sense and the little info I'm aware of. Feel free to bash it... with arguments please.

I voted four but I am really 50 50 on four and five

I think it's more for variation than anything else and that your inventory would be less crowded.

It's none of those really.



It was already confirmed they merged cuirass and greaves because that allowed them to make more unique and better armor types. It's not really a debate on why they did it. I guess that kind of fits into 4 though.


Oh and, you're argument for number 2 about modern warfare 2 is bad. Ask any true COD fan, they will say mw2 failed because they crammed too much pointless stuff in it, compared to cod4 which had the perfect balance.

They merged them because it's logical. :thumbsup:

By the way, a discussion on this already exists http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1210530-probable-explanation-for-merged-cuirass-and-greaves-performance-increase/.

Your not considering that in order to mix and match, every set of greaves has to work with every other cuirass and that severely limits the freedom to create unique and varying armor sets. The combination of the two allows them create virtually any number of armors in any style they can conceive with out having to worry about clipping issues. This alone makes the merge worth it IMO.

I liked being able to mix and match armor. My character's appearance was very important to me. I'll miss having Orc Pauldrons with my Dreugh Cuirass (I upgraded later, don't worry, but I don't remember the configuration), but if it really does improve the programming and design possibilities to merge it, then I'll live through it,

They just wanted to keep to the style of the nords.

I never DIDN'T match armor anyway

This. :goodjob:

I disagree

MW2 sold better and had better reviews than COD4. I don't need to ask any true COD to know this.

Besides, I am a "true COD fan" myself. This isn't the forum to discuss the problems of MW2, which of course exist, and are very significant, but I don't believe "too much options" is one of them for the mayority of players, at all.

Anyway, I respect your opinion AKShockwave, that's why I made a poll, so you can vote your favourite option.

My guess is that its partly option 1 - You can clearly put more NPCs on a screen if you have less texture files to load. A merged armor piece needs only 1 texture file, not 2. Again this is largely to make the game look better and run smoother on aging console system hardware.

The other option(voted other) would likely to limit clipping issues. Why clipping issues offend people is beyond me. I would MUCH rather have a piecemeal looking armor configuration than worry about if my overhand slash animation has my greaves sticking through my shoulder. Again, simple changed to cater to a population that is primarily concerned about looks and graphics. It definitely shows a willingness to further erode gamplay and freedom to make the game look pretty.

I didnt think anything pointless in modern warfare 2 was pointless. I would rather play mw2 than cod4 anyday but but yes i think it is 4.

I voted 4. Lets hope that we get a lot more armor variety to compensate.

I'm going to assume that 5 is not the reason simply because they didn't mention it. I'd assume that they would realise that if they told the community that the loss of greaves allowed for extensive armor customisation there probably would have been quite a positive response.

Shasow, saying something is "logical" without explaining why makes no sense.

That discussion deals with option 1 only, and lacks a poll. Anyway, I believe moderators exist for a reason, so please let them do their work.

Also... I take time to write my posts because I have other things to do, and my first language isn't english, I would love to see you try to discuss a complex matter in spanish, for example, before critizising my writing speed.



You're probably right, I disagree because of what I stated in the OP, but your judgment is as good as mine.

Until we get to play the game all this is pure speculation, of course.

I can't say I agree with this texture thing you're talking about here. Yes, there will be a performance increase, but not because of textures.

Are shirts and pants combined, or just armor?

I voted "other."

It seems like one reason given for merging was due to a design concept for the Nordic themed armor.

I believe a dev mentioned that with the Nordic style, the greaves were mostly coverd by the cuirass, allowing only a little of the greaves to be seen. It was decided that merging the curiass and greaves was a better design to put into the game.

If I am incorrect in this, please advise.

It looks like there will be a greater variety of armors available.

Unless I missed something, we don't know yet.

Common sense leads me to believe they are combined.

Yes, I think so. I saw a thread a while back saying that they were confirmed to also be combined. :shrug:

They merged the armor :

• Lazyness / Not a priority
  
• Simplifying and streamlining the game
  
• They can finish up the game so they can get $$$$ quicker.

Its ALWAYS about profits nowadays.


THIS! I ALWAYS mixed armor and cloths.

...that svcks.

I guess we all get to look the same now. Yippee.

Why don't we wait 'till the game is out to judge their decisions?

Edit: @RAF1940 They also confirmed that they have way more styles of clothes and armor.

So the chances of seeing two people on screen wearing the exact same clothes are very slim.

3 years in the making, definitely trying to finish the game as fast as possible.

for people who voted because of consoles just stop alright its not the consoles its to make more armor that don't over lap and look good and for better rendering. you had as much customization in morrowind and oblivion so its not the consoles.

Textures is a big part when you are dealing with limited video memory. Model polygon count is the other. However, polygon count is going to increase depending on the number of the same model on the screen regardless. Textures doesn't. I can load 1 texture file in memory and have 30 of the same models on the screen point to it. So for 30 Nords all wearing the exact same model armor I only need 1 single texture file loaded into memory. Lets say they want more variety on screen so they have 5 armor types at once visible.... Still only 5 texture files to load.

Now, if you have 30 Nords with 5 armors and 5 different greaves... you need 10 texture files loaded into memory.

The xbox 360 is working with 512 mb of shared memory for both RAM and video. Thats not a lot.