[Thema]

Levitation will not be in Skyrim for exactly the same reason it was not in Oblivion.

Cities are going to be in their own separate cells and having levitate would mean you would be able to see the big empty spaces where towns are supposed to be.

This will just simply be how it is, there is no changing it.

If this game was PC only or if Microsoft/Song had brought out new consoles in time for Tes5 being released then it would be feasible to have cities in the same cell as the world but on the 5 year old hardware in 360s/PS3's it's just simply not possible with the technology they are outfitted with.

Sad but true.

I really wish new consoles would come out so that they can stop holding back games on the PC. PC only titles are able to accomplish such amazing things with the new hardware available to them, One can only dream what Skyrim would have been like if it was PC exclusive/Developed for the next generation of consoles.

This argument is dependent on the idea that Oblivion was on the bleeding edge of the consoles' technical abilities. That almost certainly isn't the case. There's no real reason the engine can't made more efficient, and made to use more of the console's processing power, and allow open cities in Skyrim.

[Sammygirl]

Heh.

I can't believe people think there is a reasonable argument to leave levitation out. As I said before "Don't Like Don't Use it". That seems to be the general response to features that people DO NOT want in the game. How about supporting the community a bit by reintroducing some items that people DO want in.

[Richus Dude]

Then give me those options. And make there be a possibility of being waylaid. And make me tired when I get there. And make a nice little traveling graphics or cutscene like in other games. Surely you see the immense difference experiences and consequences between actually traveling and a magic Skip Life button. The entire fantasy genre revolves around the idea of an adventure, a journey.


Err, I don't see how that's any worse than the 95% of us who will fast travel to the top. And any low or mid level mage in Morrowind would be unable to levitate up 70 steps, much less 7000.

No it wouldn't. It would be the exact same system as the MW system, only easier.

You don't seem to understand the point of fast travel. Not everyone has a ton of hours to devote everyday to travel back and fourth. Some people prefer to just experience the story and not have to deal with fighting a thousand creatures along the way to their quest objective. A good example of actual travel svcking is WoW. If in Morrowind they made me sit there and watch the Stilt Strider fly to my destinations I would have not been happy. The point of fast travel is it being fast. I want to get here now, as a real person in the real world because I don't have the time/want to do it in the game.

It's different because you actually have to climb the 7000 steps the first time before using fast travel. With levitation you don't.

How is that the same as Morrowind? In Morrowind you could just keep drinking potions and never run out of mana to keep casting levitate. If Skyrim follows suit of Oblivion there will be a limit to how many potions you can drink within a certain timespan so no... That would not make it easier at all.

[Kelly Osbourne Kelly]

As usual, what the hell are you talking about?

The longer your levitate and the faster you levitate, the more magicka the spell costs. How is this cheating, or even different from a magicka-draining system? It's actually even more difficult with Morrowind's system because you need the skill and maximum magicka to cast the spell in the first place. If you're not sufficiently skilled, the spell will have a minuscule success chance. The only thing the devs need to do to make it balanced is cut down on the magic items and potions that provided the effect. Sometimes I wonder if you even played TES III or just like to justify Oblivion's failures of imagination. You surely haven't read any of the lore you talk about. There are freaking zeppelins and spaceships and you're telling me Levitation spells aren't realistic? You had to be an uber mage to get anywhere using levitation, and anyone who puts the effort into powerful magic should have access to, well, powerful magic. If we have to suffer through unexplained teleport-style fast travel, the least they could do is allow 5% of us to fly.

Levitation was FUN. It had no drawbacks. The game should be FUN. The end.

I would like to know what the hell are you talking about when you say that. Is so difficult to understand that when you use fast travel time passes, and you just skip your character walking to wherever you want to go? Ok, so now I say that Morrowind fast-travel system didin't make sense. You mounted a Silt Strider and it magically teleported.

EDIT: Outlander, I'm late...

[Maeva]

I would like to know what the hell are you talking about when you say that. Is so difficult to understand that when you use fast travel time passes, and you just skip your character walking to wherever you want to go? Ok, so now I say that Morrowind fast-travel system didin't make sense. You mounted a Silt Strider and it magically teleported.

EDIT: Outlander, I'm late...

Yeah, a little late But you added to my point so it's all good. :thumbsup:

[Anthony Diaz]

Could you please add a "Don't care" option? I don't think that it makes that much of a difference, having levitation or not.

[Chris Jones]

As usual, what the hell are you talking about?

The longer your levitate and the faster you levitate, the more magicka the spell costs. How is this cheating, or even different from a magicka-draining system? It's actually even more difficult with Morrowind's system because you need the skill and maximum magicka to cast the spell in the first place. If you're not sufficiently skilled, the spell will have a minuscule success chance. The only thing the devs need to do to make it balanced is cut down on the magic items and potions that provided the effect. Sometimes I wonder if you even played TES III or just like to justify Oblivion's failures of imagination. You surely haven't read any of the lore you talk about. There are freaking zeppelins and spaceships and you're telling me Levitation spells aren't realistic? You had to be an uber mage to get anywhere using levitation, and anyone who puts the effort into powerful magic should have access to, well, powerful magic. If we have to suffer through unexplained teleport-style fast travel, the least they could do is allow 5% of us to fly.

Levitation was FUN. It had no drawbacks. The game should be FUN. The end.

Levitation is broken. It is one of the reasons it was removed. It also doesn't fit the lore when you can fly about the world as you wish. Sorry, just because you think it is fun, it's a novelty and ruins gameplay, so no, just because you think it is fun because it is op doesn't mean you can ruin the game continuity, sorry, some extra novelty that is fun for a little while isn't worth sacrificing lore or gameplay. I love how you think because I don't like the overpowered features that were removed from Morrowind I must not have played the game, no, I just enjoy the game when it isn't broken. There was never any zeppelins and spaceships, the only thing that allowed you anything to fly was a Dwemer airship, which isn't that outlandish and the ministry of truth, first using the power of Vivec and then the ingenium. You do not EVER have people flying about under their own power, it's stupid and doesn't fit the lore. I'm also tired of people saying that fast travel was unexplained. How about you think about it. Does the game literally have to tell you exactly what is going on? You fast travel and the game calculates how long it would normally take you to get there. If your on foot it will take longer to fast travel than it would if you were mounted. It's not powerful magic if you can fly wherever you go, that's the realm of a god and no character is a god, sorry.

[gemma]

It also doesn't fit the lore when you can fly about the world as you wish.

Again, you're going to have to explain this one.

Simply because it nowhere explicitly states in some in-game or out-of-game text that "Oh, btw, if peeps have enough magicka or ability or what have you, it's perfectly OK for them to use levitation as much as they want," doesn't mean in the slightest it's unsupported. If there is a presence in the world that is powerful enough (and seeing as I became a God-Killer in Morrowind, and that we pretty much should be considered a foretold God-banisher in Skyrim, I think that test is passed), then they should be able to channel raw creatia however they please. This can be gathered not just from in-game texts detailing all the comparable magical happenings since the Dawn, but common sense regarding what was presented in-game.

Never mind that a simple half-baked potion in the Infernal City reached from distant land to the underbelly of Umbriel. And that was probably no small distance.


I'll understand if levitation isn't added for gameplay structure reasons, or time constraints, or if it's gimped for structure or style reasons, but trying to pin it on non-lore support is just silly.

[Eve(G)]

Again: it will almost certainly not be in after hearing Todd talk about going around and up a mountain to reach awesome places.

[Shirley BEltran]

Again, you're going to have to explain this one.

Simply because it nowhere explicitly states in some in-game or out-of-game text that "Oh, btw, if peeps have enough magicka or ability or what have you, it's perfectly OK for them to use levitation as much as they want," doesn't mean in the slightest it's unsupported. If there is a presence in the world that is powerful enough (and seeing as I became a God-Killer in Morrowind, and that we pretty much should be considered a foretold God-banisher in Skyrim, I think that test is passed), then they should be able to channel raw creatia however they please. This can be gathered not just from in-game texts detailing all the comparable magical happenings since the Dawn, but common sense regarding what was presented in-game.

Never mind that a simple half-baked potion in the Infernal City reached from distant land to the underbelly of Umbriel. And that was probably no small distance.


I'll understand if levitation isn't added for gameplay structure reasons, or time constraints, or if it's gimped for structure or style reasons, but trying to pin it on non-lore support is just silly.

Ummm ok, you weren't a god-killer in Morrowind. You killed two people that were no longer gods, way to go killing mortals with only their own powers. I don't see how you think your going to be a God-banisher in Skyrim. If your thinking that it's because your going to beat Akatosh, I'll say again, no one can say for sure that Alduin is Akatosh and I still say he isn't. The half-baked potion you talk of is a potion created in Umbriel, a city from within the plane of Oblivion, power like that is probably a common happening in the REALM OF GODS. Levitation doesn't fit in lore, no one goes flying around as they please in any lore. Levitation makes sense in the context of lore when it drains magicka from you constantly, the magic can alter the air pressure around you constantly with a current of magicka allowing you to fly a very short distance just to get to a place you normally couldn't.

[Claire]

Ummm ok, you weren't a god-killer in Morrowind. You killed two people that were no longer gods, way to go killing mortals with only their own powers. I don't see how you think your going to be a God-banisher in Skyrim. If your thinking that it's because your going to beat Akatosh, I'll say again, no one can say for sure that Alduin is Akatosh and I still say he isn't. The half-baked potion you talk of is a potion created in Umbriel, a city from within the plane of Oblivion, power like that is probably a common happening in the REALM OF GODS. Levitation doesn't fit in lore, no one goes flying around as they please in any lore. Levitation makes sense in the context of lore when it drains magicka from you constantly, the magic can alter the air pressure around you constantly with a current of magicka allowing you to fly a very short distance just to get to a place you normally couldn't.

Critique of points:
Vehk, Ayem, and Seht, Pre-Heart and Post-Heart, are still the Anticipations of the Daedra Lords Mephala, Boethiah, and Azura, respectively. They are hardly mortals by any stretch regardless of when the player encounters them.
Besides, I wasn't talking about killing the Tribunal. I was talking about killing Dagoth Ur, who is a being still connected fully to the heart of the Space God and Mundus-Creator.

Alduin not Akatosh? http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-varieties-faith-empire disagrees with you, as does the idea of Gods literally representing the sum of the different cultural representations. http://www.imperial-library.info/content/where-were-you-when-dragon-broke-complete-version Therefore, if the player is really out to stop the Dragon God of Time (read: Aka and Alduin) from ending this time and beginning another Dawn, then that qualifies as God-Banishing.

The potion I mention isn't the one created in Umbriel. It's the one created in Black Marsh, the one that they use to get to Umbriel in the first place. And even if that weren't an issue, ingredients are ingredients; if they can produce a powerful potion, then it's still very much within the scope of plausibility.


And at the end of the day, regardless of whether or not levitation is in the game or no, regardless of how powerful or "OP" it is in the game or no, things still follow this basic principle regarding the world that the gameplay seeks to approximate:

Everything on Nirn is a subgradient of Gods, who are in turn subgradients if IS/IS-NOT.

Everything on Nirn, given the right set of circumstances, has the power to transcend the natural limits of their subgradient state, whether that's heading back up the chain, going further along it, or just getting more powerful in the state they're already at. See: Dwemer attempting to ascend their race into godhood, the Tribunal's tampering with the heart, the apotheosis of Tiber/Zurin/Wulfarth, the ability of above-said Monkey Prophet and dancers to completely shatter time, the Psijiic endeavor, dealing with the Daedra (a la Umaril, or Vuhon to a different extent), and nevermind the entire concept of the wheel and the 'I". Or what about those Yokudans and their ability to cut the atomos?

Therefore, everything on Nirn, given that it is powerful enough, can be perfectly capable of flying through the air as they please.

If you wish to tell me that the purported irreconcilability of powerful levitation stands apart from all the rest of the crazy things that go on in Tamriel, forgive me if that sounds incredibly hollow.

[Karine laverre]

I know there where glitches in Morrowind that let you fly around but i think it would be fun to have, not necessarily useful but fun- like when i'm climbing mountains, it could give me a boost over the steep parts

[Alisha Clarke]

I really don't want levitation for a reason most people will find stupid.
There just is no animation that can make it look cool. Seriously, just try thinking of one.

[Noely Ulloa]

I really don't want levitation for a reason most people will find stupid.
There just is no animation that can make it look cool. Seriously, just try thinking of one.

I don't have to think of one. I'm looking at one! I mean, c'mon. You're right there being a lady all levitating in the sky and everything.

Ba-dum Tsh.

[Lauren Dale]

I don't have to think of one. I'm looking at one! I mean, c'mon. You're right there being a lady all levitating in the sky and everything.

Ba-dum Tsh.

:celebration:

[Eoh]

I understand why they did it in OB, I would still love to see it in Skyrim, skill needs to govern altitude instead of speed of flight though.

[Melis Hristina]

There are some great contributions in this thread and it feels awesome that there are souls out there that have a genuine feeling for the development of this new upcoming TES: V game.

Did it mess up my gaming experience to not have Levitation in Oblivion? No. I did not miss it at all. I don't understand how you could possibly become so attached to a spell that the lack of having it crushes your gaming experience. I don't understand. I did not enjoy Morrowind because I could Levitate. As a matter of fact, it was a huge annoyance because in early playthroughs I could never find a Levitation spell and I played primarily melee, so the only Levitation spells I COULD find required too much magicka to use. I'd always have to be on the lookout for scrolls or potions and they were never where I looked.

Was Levitation really that big of a deal for some people that without it, their gaming experience is crushed? Again, I do not understand. Even reading the positives, it's not enough that the lack of it would hinder gameplay when the ES series is good for so many reasons, Levitation does not come to mind as one of those reasons for me.

As I shared my game philosophy earlier with the concern for levitation and what it does for the sense for the explorer's mind, lest to say that if an aspect of that is removed, the game gets stripped of its essence.

Speaking of simple nuts to crack...

"Poll: Levitation in Skyrim?"

Clarification needed on this one: Are you asking "Will there be...?" "Do you want...?" "Any confirmation on....?"

I'd vote...but I can't tell for sure exactly what I'm voting on. :shrug:

As long as there are no aspberges voting :tongue:, it should be pretty damn straight for anyone with a bit of logical reasoning to figure this one out.

Could you please add a "Don't care" option? I don't think that it makes that much of a difference, having levitation or not.

Then what are you doing in here? You might aswell join a forum about horses and tell them that you don't care about horses.

Taken from one of the levitation threads linked in the first post.

Actually, from a lore stand point (the most important stand point) flying is incredibly rare and the latest show of flying was a flying potion created within the Oblivion city, Umbriel. That potion was an extremely powerful one. Levitation isn't common place at all and all the instances of levitation, were not very high and not far. The levitation in Daggerfall and Morrowind was a bit much and dipped into godhood, which is not good from a lore or game standpoint.

I'll bend for levitation if it's gimped within limits that make it believable but no way in hell is recall going to come back, teleportation doesn't fit in the lore except by divine power or using portals. Portals are acceptable, due to them being rooted in the lore and being powerful gateways cast between two points, but teleportation doesn't fit in the lore and doesn't belong in the game!

.
Levitation is broken. It is one of the reasons it was removed. It also doesn't fit the lore when you can fly about the world as you wish. Sorry, just because you think it is fun, it's a novelty and ruins gameplay, so no, just because you think it is fun because it is op doesn't mean you can ruin the game continuity, sorry, some extra novelty that is fun for a little while isn't worth sacrificing lore or gameplay. I love how you think because I don't like the overpowered features that were removed from Morrowind I must not have played the game, no, I just enjoy the game when it isn't broken. There was never any zeppelins and spaceships, the only thing that allowed you anything to fly was a Dwemer airship, which isn't that outlandish and the ministry of truth, first using the power of Vivec and then the ingenium. You do not EVER have people flying about under their own power, it's stupid and doesn't fit the lore. I'm also tired of people saying that fast travel was unexplained. How about you think about it. Does the game literally have to tell you exactly what is going on? You fast travel and the game calculates how long it would normally take you to get there. If your on foot it will take longer to fast travel than it would if you were mounted. It's not powerful magic if you can fly wherever you go, that's the realm of a god and no character is a god, sorry.

Teleportation doesn't fit the lore, levitation doesn't fit the lore, come on make up your mind.
I'll love to debate it but it seems to me that you Mr. thrive on these kind talk.

I hope ThatOneGuy left you at.

[Iain Lamb]

Critique of points:
Vehk, Ayem, and Seht, Pre-Heart and Post-Heart, are still the Anticipations of the Daedra Lords Mephala, Boethiah, and Azura, respectively. They are hardly mortals by any stretch regardless of when the player encounters them.
Besides, I wasn't talking about killing the Tribunal. I was talking about killing Dagoth Ur, who is a being still connected fully to the heart of the Space God and Mundus-Creator.

Those three were not gods and nowhere near them before they acquired their power from the Heart of Lorkhan, powerful yes, but gods, not even close. Dagoth Ur, was not a god when you kill him. You couldn't kill him at all. You can beat him but his god powers just resurrect him and he start unleashing against you again. There is a difference between killing a god and being able to defeat one. Gods are fallible too, you can be more skilled in fighting than them but they just heal quickly and continue to fight you. Eventually you are going to wear down and die. Thus is why when you struck down Dagoth Ur you had to hurry and destroy the heart before his power resurrected him the god state.

Alduin not Akatosh? http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-varieties-faith-empire disagrees with you, as does the idea of Gods literally representing the sum of the different cultural representations. http://www.imperial-library.info/content/where-were-you-when-dragon-broke-complete-version Therefore, if the player is really out to stop the Dragon God of Time (read: Aka and Alduin) from ending this time and beginning another Dawn, then that qualifies as God-Banishing.

Varieties of Faith clearly states that from the view point of the in-game writer that they must be anologous of each other just because Alduin is a dragon and Akatosh is a dragon, all he is doing is drawing lines, it's also been stated that in-game writers that write from their point of view can be incorrect and thus is what makes the lore more believable that people can get it wrong from their point of view. Many things that you and other people link as proof (such as both links in your sig) are not lore, they are just random writings by Michael Kirkbride, nothing more.

The potion I mention isn't the one created in Umbriel. It's the one created in Black Marsh, the one that they use to get to Umbriel in the first place. And even if that weren't an issue, ingredients are ingredients; if they can produce a powerful potion, then it's still very much within the scope of plausibility.

Still doesn't make a difference of you need a constant source of power to be able to fly. The magical reaction between the ingredients could be causing the constant output of magic needed to fly until the reaction stops outputting magic.

And at the end of the day, regardless of whether or not levitation is in the game or no, regardless of how powerful or "OP" it is in the game or no, things still follow this basic principle regarding the world that the gameplay seeks to approximate:

Everything on Nirn is a subgradient of Gods, who are in turn subgradients if IS/IS-NOT.

Everything on Nirn, given the right set of circumstances, has the power to transcend the natural limits of their subgradient state, whether that's heading back up the chain, going further along it, or just getting more powerful in the state they're already at. See: Dwemer attempting to ascend their race into godhood, the Tribunal's tampering with the heart, the apotheosis of Tiber/Zurin/Wulfarth, the ability of above-said Monkey Prophet and dancers to completely shatter time, the Psijiic endeavor, dealing with the Daedra (a la Umaril, or Vuhon to a different extent), and nevermind the entire concept of the wheel and the 'I". Or what about those Yokudans and their ability to cut the atomos?

Therefore, everything on Nirn, given that it is powerful enough, can be perfectly capable of flying through the air as they please.

If you wish to tell me that the purported irreconcilability of powerful levitation stands apart from all the rest of the crazy things that go on in Tamriel, forgive me if that sounds incredibly hollow.

This just shows that your perception of the events of TES are blown out of proportion. You (and others in the lore community) see everything beyond what they truly are and make it into high fantasy when it is really just at a normal level. You use subgradient of gods to act like things have a hidden potential that can be unlocked at will to gain a variable amount of power when this is just thinking too highly of a more simple event. Nirn is made of etada and the powers of the eight divines. Lorkhan's body makes up the two moons of Nirn and the stars are the holes of the spirits that left mundus through Oblivion to Aetherius before they lost their powers and immortality and become chained to Mundus like the eight divines and other etada did. Then of course the Sun is a huge hole ripped in Oblivion from the retreat of Magnus from Mundus. The Dwemer believed that they could bring Lorkhan back to like and that he would give them immortality, that's it, it wasn't some subgradient where they had some hidden potential. The tribunal tampered with the Heart of Lorkhan and siphoned off the power of Lorkhan that laid within because they were greedy and wished for godhood, once again, has nothing to do with "subgradient", just greed and direct power of Lorkhan. The Apotheosis of Tiber Septim was the only thing that could be accepted of sub-gradient and needs more back information to really flesh it out. Shattering of time by the monkey prophet is once again taking things too far and literal, it's just a tale from a mortals perspective. The concept of the wheel and the "I" is once again just a random writing that is not lore. The Yokudans cutting the atomos is also just an obscure story that has no semblance of truth behind it.

In the end, every world has laws of reality and being able to fly everywhere at will is not within those laws for a mortal with very limited magicka.

Teleportation doesn't fit the lore, levitation doesn't fit the lore, come on make up your mind.
I'll love to debate it but it seems to me that you Mr. thrive on these kind talk.

Teleportation at will doesn't fit the lore either. Set portals do, not teleportation.

[yessenia hermosillo]

Those three were not gods and nowhere near them before they acquired their power from the Heart of Lorkhan, powerful yes, but gods, not even close. Dagoth Ur, was not a god when you kill him. You couldn't kill him at all. You can beat him but his god powers just resurrect him and he start unleashing against you again. There is a difference between killing a god and being able to defeat one. Gods are fallible too, you can be more skilled in fighting than them but they just heal quickly and continue to fight you. Eventually you are going to wear down and die. Thus is why when you struck down Dagoth Ur you had to hurry and destroy the heart before his power resurrected him the god state.

That entirely depends upon your choice of how to view things. Did the Tribunal simply plug into a God's heart like an electric socket and become fascinating but drab little light-up toys? Or did their tampering with the Space-God's heart, so linked as he is to the Time-God, create something altogether more?

Varieties of Faith clearly states that from the view point of the in-game writer that they must be anologous of each other just because Alduin is a dragon and Akatosh is a dragon, all he is doing is drawing lines, it's also been stated that in-game writers that write from their point of view can be incorrect and thus is what makes the lore more believable that people can get it wrong from their point of view. Many things that you and other people link as proof (such as both links in your sig) are not lore, they are just random writings by Michael Kirkbride, nothing more.

Yes, in-game sources can be wrong.
That said, when every possible in-game race has their own creation myth that echoes of all the other, their own pantheon that echoes of all the others, and the pantheon's attributes that echo of all the others, you become hard-pressed in asserting that they are dubitable.
Things are dubitable when there are key and vital interpretations to the contrary that are presented in the world. For instance, if there had only been one version of the Battle of Red Mountain present in Morrowind, we would have little to no reason whatsoever to question the veracity of it. It's not until the other interpretations are put alongside that an act of interpretation and doubt begins.

I challenge you to assume the burden of proof and demonstrate to me that Alduin is in fact NOT Akatosh.
More on Kirkbride at the bottom.

Still doesn't make a difference of you need a constant source of power to be able to fly. The magical reaction between the ingredients could be causing the constant output of magic needed to fly until the reaction stops outputting magic.

So if I were to have a vast number of these potions, since we assume that they are more than possible to make, I would essentially have significantly-long-lasting levitation, no? Should we remove them from the world so I can't stock up on "OP" levitation potions?

This just shows that your perception of the events of TES are blown out of proportion. You (and others in the lore community) see everything beyond what they truly are and make it into high fantasy when it is really just at a normal level. You use subgradient of gods to act like things have a hidden potential that can be unlocked at will to gain a variable amount of power when this is just thinking too highly of a more simple event. Nirn is made of etada and the powers of the eight divines. Lorkhan's body makes up the two moons of Nirn and the stars are the holes of the spirits that left mundus through Oblivion to Aetherius before they lost their powers and immortality and become chained to Mundus like the eight divines and other etada did. Then of course the Sun is a huge hole ripped in Oblivion from the retreat of Magnus from Mundus. The Dwemer believed that they could bring Lorkhan back to like and that he would give them immortality, that's it, it wasn't some subgradient where they had some hidden potential. The tribunal tampered with the Heart of Lorkhan and siphoned off the power of Lorkhan that laid within because they were greedy and wished for godhood, once again, has nothing to do with "subgradient", just greed and direct power of Lorkhan. The Apotheosis of Tiber Septim was the only thing that could be accepted of sub-gradient and needs more back information to really flesh it out. Shattering of time by the monkey prophet is once again taking things too far and literal, it's just a tale from a mortals perspective. The concept of the wheel and the "I" is once again just a random writing that is not lore. The Yokudans cutting the atomos is also just an obscure story that has no semblance of truth behind it.

In the end, every world has laws of reality and being able to fly everywhere at will is not within those laws for a mortal with very limited magicka.

This also shows that your perception of the events of TES are selective in nature. Most everything that is present in the obscure texts can be unpacked and determined through in-game work. Most notably in the 36 Lessons, though no doubt you'll dismiss that too as the ravings of a mad Dunmer that have nothing of value contained within. I find it interesting that you're willing to accept Tiber/Zurin/Wulfarth's apotheosis as a raw example of the existence of these concepts, yet you still deny them elsewhere as 'just mortal perspective,' or 'imagining too much.'

There's not much in the way of arguing this, either. If you truly think that MK's writings, in or out, have absolutely no ties whatsoever to the world, considering the man founded its metaphysics as an in-game writer, then all I can say is that your view of TES is a deprived one, and one that deserves some much-needed re-anolysis.
But even if you insist to hold to it, at least I can say that my interpretive world is by no means boring, limited, and full of negation.

Since we now essentially have to argue which choice is right and why, we might as well hold off or create a new thread, seeing as that's a much broader topic than what this thread is intended for.
But at the very least, recognize that if my view is an interpretive choice, then yours is just as well.

[Jessica Thomson]

That entirely depends upon your choice of how to view things. Did the Tribunal simply plug into a God's heart like an electric socket and become fascinating but drab little light-up toys? Or did their tampering with the Space-God's heart, so linked as he is to the Time-God, create something altogether more?

This is what I'm talking about, your taking things to a quixotic stance when it has a pretty straight forward answer. Your making it more complicated than it really is.

Yes, in-game sources can be wrong.
That said, when every possible in-game race has their own creation myth that echoes of all the other, their own pantheon that echoes of all the others, and the pantheon's attributes that echo of all the others, you become hard-pressed in asserting that they are dubitable.
Things are dubitable when there are key and vital interpretations to the contrary that are presented in the world. For instance, if there had only been one version of the Battle of Red Mountain present in Morrowind, we would have little to no reason whatsoever to question the veracity of it. It's not until the other interpretations are put alongside that an act of interpretation and doubt begins.

No, not every race has the same echoing creation myth. In fact, Alduin in Nordic religion is NOTHING like Akatosh. The only real connection is Auriel and Akatosh in that respect.

So if I were to have a vast number of these potions, since we assume that they are more than possible to make, I would essentially have significantly-long-lasting levitation, no? Should we remove them from the world so I can't stock up on "OP" levitation potions?

Well first of all, the flying potion had an air of extreme rarity, they aren't in supply to anyone. Another thing is that you can be poisoned from drinking too many potions. Mainly you have to realize that just because it is possible to make doesn't mean it's possible to make in bulk or even get a hold of the recipe. I mean, technically you can make a cure for vampirism but you don't see everyone getting it and it's certainly not in bulk.

This also shows that your perception of the events of TES are selective in nature. Most everything that is present in the obscure texts can be unpacked and determined through in-game work. Most notably in the 36 Lessons, though no doubt you'll dismiss that too as the ravings of a mad Dunmer that have nothing of value contained within. I find it interesting that you're willing to accept Tiber/Zurin/Wulfarth's apotheosis as a raw example of the existence of these concepts, yet you still deny them elsewhere as 'just mortal perspective,' or 'imagining too much.'

How is my perception of events of TES selective? He uses instances of events already in TES lore in his writings, that doesn't make them any more real, I mean I could right a story talking about the slave uprising against the Ayleids but it doesn't make it any more real. The apotheosis of Tiber Septim I already explained needs more back up information to explain just how exactly he became a divine, it's not like it's possible for anyone, it was a one time deal and could possibly be linked to the activation of the Numidium and the power it wrought. The concepts you explain over events we know are unfounded and go over the top when we already know exactly what happened, there is no "deeper" explanation, I mean, they tapped into the power of Lorkhan's Heart with Kagrenac's tools and became gods, what more is there to it?

There's not much in the way of arguing this, either. If you truly think that MK's writings, in or out, have absolutely no ties whatsoever to the world, considering the man founded its metaphysics as an in-game writer, then all I can say is that your view of TES is a deprived one, and one that deserves some much-needed re-anolysis.
But even if you insist to hold to it, at least I can say that my interpretive world is by no means boring, limited, and full of negation.

Kirkbride quit working at BGS during Morrowind and he occasionally is hired to be a contract writer for lore, he is by far not the only person that works on lore for TES. Not every writing he makes is lore just because he USED to be a writer for beth and occasionally gets hired. I interpret the lore as a whole in comparison to each and every shred of it to piece together to get the final perspective of the lore. Interpretation should be limited to the lore that actually exists and not interpreting it to make it seem more divine and over the top because you want it to mean something greater than it already is.


On topic, levitation should only return if it constantly and rapidly drains magicka so that you can't go very far, such as only being able to go 50-70 feet in the air and 30 feet in any direction just so that you can get to ledges that you normally couldn't.

[Melung Chan]

Levitation is broken. It is one of the reasons it was removed. It also doesn't fit the lore when you can fly about the world as you wish. Sorry, just because you think it is fun, it's a novelty and ruins gameplay, so no, just because you think it is fun because it is op doesn't mean you can ruin the game continuity, sorry, some extra novelty that is fun for a little while isn't worth sacrificing lore or gameplay. I love how you think because I don't like the overpowered features that were removed from Morrowind I must not have played the game, no, I just enjoy the game when it isn't broken. There was never any zeppelins and spaceships, the only thing that allowed you anything to fly was a Dwemer airship, which isn't that outlandish and the ministry of truth, first using the power of Vivec and then the ingenium. You do not EVER have people flying about under their own power, it's stupid and doesn't fit the lore. I'm also tired of people saying that fast travel was unexplained. How about you think about it. Does the game literally have to tell you exactly what is going on? You fast travel and the game calculates how long it would normally take you to get there. If your on foot it will take longer to fast travel than it would if you were mounted. It's not powerful magic if you can fly wherever you go, that's the realm of a god and no character is a god, sorry.

Everything you just said is demonstrably wrong. What's more you are continually treat your own opinions like facts and reiterate them after they have been rebutted. I'm not even going to bother.

[Hussnein Amin]

At one side I love the return of those 3d dungeon designs from Morrowind.

At the other side, I do not like to be able to bypass any obstacle with a flick of my hand, or reach the top of those 7000 steps.

How about a problem with the spell on open spaces, hmm?

[Leticia Hernandez]

Everything you just said is demonstrably wrong. What's more you are continually treat your own opinions like facts and reiterate them after they have been rebutted. I'm not even going to bother.

Really, enlighten me to exact examples of how I am so "demonstrably wrong".

[Katy Hogben]

That entirely depends upon your choice of how to view things. Did the Tribunal simply plug into a God's heart like an electric socket and become fascinating but drab little light-up toys? Or did their tampering with the Space-God's heart, so linked as he is to the Time-God, create something altogether more?



Yes, in-game sources can be wrong.
That said, when every possible in-game race has their own creation myth that echoes of all the other, their own pantheon that echoes of all the others, and the pantheon's attributes that echo of all the others, you become hard-pressed in asserting that they are dubitable.
Things are dubitable when there are key and vital interpretations to the contrary that are presented in the world. For instance, if there had only been one version of the Battle of Red Mountain present in Morrowind, we would have little to no reason whatsoever to question the veracity of it. It's not until the other interpretations are put alongside that an act of interpretation and doubt begins.

I challenge you to assume the burden of proof and demonstrate to me that Alduin is in fact NOT Akatosh.
More on Kirkbride at the bottom.


So if I were to have a vast number of these potions, since we assume that they are more than possible to make, I would essentially have significantly-long-lasting levitation, no? Should we remove them from the world so I can't stock up on "OP" levitation potions?



This also shows that your perception of the events of TES are selective in nature. Most everything that is present in the obscure texts can be unpacked and determined through in-game work. Most notably in the 36 Lessons, though no doubt you'll dismiss that too as the ravings of a mad Dunmer that have nothing of value contained within. I find it interesting that you're willing to accept Tiber/Zurin/Wulfarth's apotheosis as a raw example of the existence of these concepts, yet you still deny them elsewhere as 'just mortal perspective,' or 'imagining too much.'

There's not much in the way of arguing this, either. If you truly think that MK's writings, in or out, have absolutely no ties whatsoever to the world, considering the man founded its metaphysics as an in-game writer, then all I can say is that your view of TES is a deprived one, and one that deserves some much-needed re-anolysis.
But even if you insist to hold to it, at least I can say that my interpretive world is by no means boring, limited, and full of negation.

Since we now essentially have to argue which choice is right and why, we might as well hold off or create a new thread, seeing as that's a much broader topic than what this thread is intended for.
But at the very least, recognize that if my view is an interpretive choice, then yours is just as well.

This is what I'm talking about, your taking things to a quixotic stance when it has a pretty straight forward answer. Your making it more complicated than it really is.



No, not every race has the same echoing creation myth. In fact, Alduin in Nordic religion is NOTHING like Akatosh. The only real connection is Auriel and Akatosh in that respect.



Well first of all, the flying potion had an air of extreme rarity, they aren't in supply to anyone. Another thing is that you can be poisoned from drinking too many potions. Mainly you have to realize that just because it is possible to make doesn't mean it's possible to make in bulk or even get a hold of the recipe. I mean, technically you can make a cure for vampirism but you don't see everyone getting it and it's certainly not in bulk.



How is my perception of events of TES selective? He uses instances of events already in TES lore in his writings, that doesn't make them any more real, I mean I could right a story talking about the slave uprising against the Ayleids but it doesn't make it any more real. The apotheosis of Tiber Septim I already explained needs more back up information to explain just how exactly he became a divine, it's not like it's possible for anyone, it was a one time deal and could possibly be linked to the activation of the Numidium and the power it wrought. The concepts you explain over events we know are unfounded and go over the top when we already know exactly what happened, there is no "deeper" explanation, I mean, they tapped into the power of Lorkhan's Heart with Kagrenac's tools and became gods, what more is there to it?



Kirkbride quit working at BGS during Morrowind and he occasionally is hired to be a contract writer for lore, he is by far not the only person that works on lore for TES. Not every writing he makes is lore just because he USED to be a writer for beth and occasionally gets hired. I interpret the lore as a whole in comparison to each and every shred of it to piece together to get the final perspective of the lore. Interpretation should be limited to the lore that actually exists and not interpreting it to make it seem more divine and over the top because you want it to mean something greater than it already is.


On topic, levitation should only return if it constantly and rapidly drains magicka so that you can't go very far, such as only being able to go 50-70 feet in the air and 30 feet in any direction just so that you can get to ledges that you normally couldn't.

As much as I want to see this get bashed out, its not the propiate place to make it happen. If you really are keen on moving this to more further on to a lore debate, I encourage one of you to make a thread about it and we shall continue viewing it from there.

As far as Sleign, you've made your point now I hope you can find the 'off' button and let everything else subside and have the thread naturally progress into the topic debate as suggested.

[Liv Brown]

As much as I want to see this get bashed out, its not the propiate place to make it happen. If you really are keen on moving this to more further on to a lore debate, I encourage one of you to make a thread about it and we shall continue viewing it from there.

As far as Sleign, you've made your point now I hope you can find the 'off' button and let everything else subside and have the thread naturally progress into the topic debate as suggested.

I've already quit talking about it several times. Why do you think it's me that has to stop? I didn't start the crap. In fact, my rebuttal to him trying to end the discussion on his terms also had an on topic line unlike his. So don't act like this is my argument because I sure as hell didn't start it. This doesn't even seem like a discussion thread about Skyrim, this seems more of a "I like levitation and I want it in and everyone that doesn't is wrong." as suggested by your OP that showed Positive and Negative. I'm all for discussing levitation but don't make it seem like I was the one that went off track, I was merely defending my convictions with reason in a debate that somehow stemmed from talks about levitation, levitation was all I was talking about until thatoneguy derailed it.

Levitation just isn't needed to return in it's previous incarnations, if it returns it will need to be balanced like how I mentioned up above several times.