The Black Plague of Tamriel : IV - Oblivion

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:28 am

I don't know what you got against Bash :shrug: (you probably have your reasons though) . Its almost impossible to have a modded game fun flawlessly ( or fix them) without bash or have some very nice game tweaks, without overdosing on mods and run into more problems. So give Wrye Bash a try (its very easy to learn how to use) and it will get rid of many headaches. :foodndrink:

here I tell you what:
I will not just download Wrye Bash Full, but I will praise the creators (which is really pushing it) if you just tell me straight out a general idea you think has a 80% chance of fixing the new deadly bug of the game: COL (lol acronyms: Crash on load)

otherwise I will continue to avoid having another uneeded program...I mean honestly, I have felt like BOSS has been a pretty worthless download as well. People tell me BOSS will probably fix this and that and blah blah, and I don't think it has really done anything.
So, I will download Wrye Bash when I know it will do something for me.

EDIT:
good news: It's not a .esp or .esm that is causing the crash, narrowing it down to DEFINATELY one of the game enhancements I installed such as the load screen, title video, or high res textures
in the mean time...I suppose I will continue to try everything I can to atleast get the game to run without crashing, then I will see if I can get it to run with mods or whatever I remove without crashing.

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:33 am

Looks like your narrowing down your Problem. there are way to many reasons I could give you as to WHY you would need Wrye Bash in the near future so I will leave you with this...

In my Bash patch are this many Records Changed: 27424 .... not too easy to control that on your own i would think.

I run FCOM (yes you HAVE to use bash for that set of mods). along with 200 other mods.. Good luck without Wrye...

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:53 am

here I tell you what:
I will not just download Wrye Bash Full, but I will praise the creators (which is really pushing it) if you just tell me straight out a general idea you think has a 80% chance of fixing the new deadly bug of the game: COL (lol acronyms: Crash on load)

otherwise I will continue to avoid having another uneeded program...I mean honestly, I have felt like BOSS has been a pretty worthless download as well. People tell me BOSS will probably fix this and that and blah blah, and I don't think it has really done anything.
So, I will download Wrye Bash when I know it will do something for me.

EDIT:
good news: It's not a .esp or .esm that is causing the crash, narrowing it down to DEFINATELY one of the game enhancements I installed such as the load screen, title video, or high res textures
in the mean time...I suppose I will continue to try everything I can to atleast get the game to run without crashing, then I will see if I can get it to run with mods or whatever I remove without crashing.

Ok suit your self. I can tell you from experience that with BOSS and Wrye bash you can fix all ( or most)problems.(I'm running a VERY heavy modded oblivion game with FCOM with no problems at all). I'm NOT going to force you to to use boss or Wrye Bash or any other program. I will just tell you this, that it will make things alot easier if you do. Now what you do is up to you. Good luck B)

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:45 pm

yes I could understand that, but I don't know what I would do to fix my current problem, so I am asking (though it sounded forceful - you have to understand my current frustration) if you will tell me, when I download Wrye bash, what am I supposed to do?

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:01 pm

yes I could understand that, but I don't know what I would do to fix my current problem, so I am asking (though it sounded forceful - you have to understand my current frustration) if you will tell me, when I download Wrye bash, what am I supposed to do?

I understand, I went through the frustrations long time ago. When I went through the frustration I held back the anger ( which for me is not that easy)and tried to learn how to fix the problems. First I would tell you learn to use bash (which is very easy).

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:52 am

yes I could understand that, but I don't know what I would do to fix my current problem, so I am asking (though it sounded forceful - you have to understand my current frustration) if you will tell me, when I download Wrye bash, what am I supposed to do?

Fist thing..if you were to uninstall all the Hi-rez and video Mods ...you would have the Originals load from the Original BSA files...Your mods were installed thru OMOD?

There is Great Documentation with Wrye bash's download also here in the Forums.and on the net. Tomlong has a great site . Links are in Tomlong's Posts.

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:56 pm

the high res texture pack had its own self installing program....which was confusing to me at first. DarNified's UI, Atmouspheric loud screen, and the Whsiper Menu Video all were installed via OBMM.
Honestly, I would like to have my vanilla stuff back. I think maybe if I could get vanilla BSA, load screens, and menu video back I could atleast keep the high res textures, because I am 95% certain we fixed that black plague. Ofcourse, with the white texture problem that occured, I was never able to test the black plague under prolonged game play.
If I could just revert back to vanilla sources, then try just DarNified and high res, I think the problem would be fixed.

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:23 am

There may be some misunderstanding here....

When you install a Mod...either loose files or a Bsa. it dosent change the Original BSA files in any way . when you remove the files you get the Originals . the only reason you dont get the originals is when you tell the Game you want something differant(The mod files) remove those and you get Original.

Edit: Looks like the Video folder may have been outside a BSA that would be why I have a few Files in my "Saved Original files" folder...when ever i write over a original file I save a copy...

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:30 am

Maybe your graphics card overheated? Next time if happens or if it even happens again check the temperature of your graphics card.

if your using nvidia check yoru driver cause i read in that there was an issue with the 197 (i think) drivers where they didnt have the correct fan speed or something burning out some cards. fortunately i still use the 186 drivers so i dont have to worry about issues like that.

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:08 am

the high res texture pack had its own self installing program....which was confusing to me at first. DarNified's UI, Atmouspheric loud screen, and the Whsiper Menu Video all were installed via OBMM.
Honestly, I would like to have my vanilla stuff back. I think maybe if I could get vanilla BSA, load screens, and menu video back I could atleast keep the high res textures, because I am 95% certain we fixed that black plague. Ofcourse, with the white texture problem that occured, I was never able to test the black plague under prolonged game play.
If I could just revert back to vanilla sources, then try just DarNified and high res, I think the problem would be fixed.

I don't know how you would get the Vanilla stuff back ( I would uninstall oblivion and make a clean install if theirs no other options). Also for future references ALWAYS backup your oblivion ( vanilla files) just in case.

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:50 am

if your using nvidia check yoru driver cause i read in that there was an issue with the 197 (i think) drivers where they didnt have the correct fan speed or something burning out some cards. fortunately i still use the 186 drivers so i dont have to worry about issues like that.

In earlier posts Ntom said that that he updated the drivers. Driver 197 ( or whichever driver that caused problems) was removed from the nVidia site. (Thats what I heard)

EDIT: Sorry for the double post ( it was accidental)

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:31 am

The Music, Shaders and Video folders are loose after a fresh install. Everything else is packed up in a BSA. Therefore, your vanilla Menus and Textures folder are still there. If you uninstalled the mods with OBMM, the Vanilla content should show. Also, you should grab WB 283 because it fixes a number of bugs. It only adds a couple new features because the focus of that release was bug fixing, so I highly recommend you upgrade to that version.

Edit: Go to the Saves tab in Wrye Bash. Do the saves that you are trying to load have red boxes in their masterlists. Those are missing masters. List them here if you have any.

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:07 am

Ntom, in all honesty, you're probably going to have to do an uninstall/clean reinstall of Oblivion (and even if you don't *have* to, you probably *should*). You're using a mish-mash of installation methods (.exe's, hand-placement, etc.) along with apparently manual removal. I would highly recommend picking one installation method as your primary (I love OBMM, but I now swear by Bash for it's easier install/uninstall/anneals of mods). Additionally, the more complex your intended mod setup is, the greater the necessity for BASH, there's no way around it (nor should you be fighting it, it's such an amazing tool).

Tomlong has already posted an excellent website resource for starting out your Oblivion install *correctly*, I would highly recommend using it.

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:30 pm

Ntom, in all honesty, you're probably going to have to do an uninstall/clean reinstall of Oblivion (and even if you don't *have* to, you probably *should*). You're using a mish-mash of installation methods (.exe's, hand-placement, etc.) along with apparently manual removal. I would highly recommend picking one installation method as your primary (I love OBMM, but I now swear by Bash for it's easier install/uninstall/anneals of mods). Additionally, the more complex your intended mod setup is, the greater the necessity for BASH, there's no way around it (nor should you be fighting it, it's such an amazing tool).

Tomlong has already posted an excellent website resource for starting out your Oblivion install *correctly*, I would highly recommend using it.

alright, so I have Wrye Bash...took awhile to get it ready to use (I looked at some Vinyl Records on ebay, off-topic, but got any good old school bands? send me a pm)
and none of the files are red. There are some that are orange with a check in them, but no red.

Anyways, I am trying to hold off on the clean install, because that will take a few hours to get everything back to how things were...
so, now that Wrye Bash - magical fix all tool - tell me what this program-god is supposed to do now? or what I am supposed to do now that I have it?
We know that the cause is either the main menu video (which I doubt since I can go to the main menu, it just crashes when loading a game) the load screen, or the rare chance of either DarNiFied or high res textures.

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:33 am

Orange indicates delinquent masters. You want to fix those too. Run BOSS. Make sure you have lock times (right-click on the File tab) turned off before you do. Wrye Bash cannot fix a bad installation. It can take care of your load order, but if the mods have been installed or uninstalled improperly Bash cannot directly help you. Manually uninstalling mods that required archive invalidation, as in the case of DarN UI, probably messed some things up.

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:09 am

Orange indicates delinquent masters. You want to fix those too. Run BOSS. Make sure you have lock times (right-click on the File tab) turned off before you do. Wrye Bash cannot fix a bad installation. It can take care of your load order, but if the mods have been installed or uninstalled improperly Bash cannot directly help you. Manually uninstalling mods that required archive invalidation, as in the case of DarN UI, probably messed some things up.

I ran boss(as I had before I ran Wrye) and still the files are orange.

oh, and I didn't manually uninstall any mod.

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:52 am

What plugins are orange? http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/troubleshooting/postlo

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:38 am

What plugins are orange? http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/troubleshooting/postlo

LO

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  TR_OoT_Main.esm02  AWS-Core.esm03  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.33]04  Diverse Wisps - Base.esm05  Kvatch Rebuilt.esm06  BetterMusicSystem.esm07  CM Partners.esm08  HorseCombatMaster.esm09  DLCShiveringIsles.esp0A  Update My Statue.esp  [Version 1.30]0B  Living Economy.esp0C  Living Economy - Items.esp0D  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.4]0E  TFF_Races_Base_RSM.esp0F  AW_Wings.esp  [Version 1]10  BlackLuster.esp11  Growlfs Animated Hair.esp12  Pegasus Armor Set.esp1A  A Very Silly Slaughterfish Mod.esp1B  HaydoxRapier.esp1C  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.33]1D  OOO-Water_Weeds.esp  [Version 1.33]1E  OOO-Armor_Perks_WearRate_Repair.esp1F  OOO-BirthSigns.esp19  OOO-Combat_Skills_Perks_Marksmanship.esp20  OOO-Dangerous_Traps.esp21  OOO-Deadly_Combat.esp22  OOO-DLT_Immersion.esp23  OOO-Potions.esp24  OOO-ThiefGuild_Difficult.esp  [Version 0.2]25  Diverse Wisps - for Vanilla.esp26  Ivellon.esp  [Version 1.5]27  AdenseEpicDungeon1_5.esp28  BHC_Expanded.esp  [Version 1.2]2A  eyja.esp2B  FiveBlindMiceBeta.esp2C  Hentai Mania.esp2D  Kragenir's Death Quest.esp2E  KDQ - Rural Line Additions.esp2F  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp30  Kvatch Rebuilt - OOO Compatibility.esp31  bladesfactionmod.esp32  Malevolent.esp33  ScarletMonastery.esp34  Side's Sailing Ships.esp35  TR_Stirk.esp36  Apachii_Goddess_Store.esp37  Arena_BattlesV1.1.esp38  The Lost Spires.esp39  HoarfrostCastle.esp3A  road+bridges.esp  [Version 4.5.4]3B  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]3C  Unlimited Rings 1.0.esp3D  Unlimited Amulets 1.0.esp3E  RealisticHealth.esp3F  MidasSpells.esp40  Deadly Reflex 5 - Timed Block with no damage or durability changes.esp41  DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp42  Oblivion XP.esp  [Version 4.1.5]43  CuteElf11.esp  [Version 1.3.5]44  _Ren_BeautyPack_full.esp45  AinmhiRace.esp46  TFF_Races_Base.esp47  CM Partners.esp48  CM Partners NPC.esp4A  CM Partners Extra NPCs.esp4B  Companion Mark and Recall.esp4C  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]4D  bgMagicItemSigil.esp  [Version 1.68EV]4E  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]4F  bgMagicBonus.esp  [Version 1.7EV]50  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]51  bgMagicAlchemy.esp  [Version 1.57]52  bgMagicPotionNumberSoulGemValue.esp  [Version 1.68UV]53  bgMagicEVShader.esp  [Version 1.7EV]54  bgMagicLightningbolt.esp55  NRB4 Standard Road Record.esp56  Oblivion Graphics Extender Support.esp  [Version 0.2]57  RC43 Christmas.esp58  newlifedetect.esp59  Western Armor.esp5A  3 Alternative Stories.esp  [Version 1.1]5B  Wings of Tyrael.esp5C  Birthsigns Reimagined.esp5D  Rideable_Crab.esp5E  Versa's Item and Flora Overhaul.esp5F  Atroyen.esp  [Version 1]60  Enhanced Key Functionality.esp61  Enhanced Key Functionality [Shivering Isles].esp62  ReneerRainMod.esp63  Darker_Caves-8944.esp64  PWISpells.esp65  PlayerCampsite.esp66  Kawaii.esp67  TESTSword.esp68  AHIRUs_Glasses_v1.esp69  cmSashaSonja.esp6A  SRJhealCompanion.esp6B  Lamayo's Dragon Bow.esp6C  Hip-huggers.esp6D  Camp Simplicity.esp6E  UniversalOblivionMod.esp

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:19 pm

We will let the pro's play with your load order but heres something Wrye gives ya for free....2 slots...

3C Unlimited Rings 1.0.esp
3D Unlimited Amulets 1.0.esp

You wont need these loaded anymore you can select the option in the Bash patch saving you 2 slots!

Edit ..before you ask...theres even pics in the readme that comes with BASH to show the Settings...

Along the bottom of the Program there are some Icons last one is a great readme....Blue circle + ?

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:08 am

Could you copy and paste the list of plugins that show up at the bottom of the BOSS log as "unrecognized." The bottom of your load order looks like a mess, so I assume BOSS did not place them in that order. You should report unknown plugins with links in the BOSS thread so that they can be added. At the moment, however, you need to move those plugins into the right places yourself.

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:22 am

Could you copy and paste the list of plugins that show up at the bottom of the BOSS log as "unrecognized." The bottom of your load order looks like a mess, so I assume BOSS did not place them in that order. You should report unknown plugins with links in the BOSS thread so that they can be added. At the moment, however, you need to move those plugins into the right places yourself.

well 4 of those many unknown mods are my own mods that I made for myself. UniversalOblivionMod, PWISpells, Gracelands, and Camp Simplicity

Spoiler

Unknown mod file: RC43 Christmas.esp
Unknown mod file: newlifedetect.esp
Unknown mod file: Western Armor.esp
Unknown mod file: 3 Alternative Stories.esp
Unknown mod file: Kurese Recolours.esp
Unknown mod file: Wings of Tyrael.esp
Unknown mod file: Birthsigns Reimagined.esp
Unknown mod file: Rideable_Crab.esp
Unknown mod file: Versa's Item and Flora Overhaul.esp
Unknown mod file: Atroyen.esp
Unknown mod file: Enhanced Key Functionality.esp
Unknown mod file: Enhanced Key Functionality [Shivering Isles].esp
Unknown mod file: Vaisellias Companion.esp
Unknown mod file: ReneerRainMod.esp
Unknown mod file: Darker_Caves-8944.esp
Unknown mod file: AtatarFix.esp
Unknown mod file: PWISpells.esp
Unknown mod file: PlayerCampsite.esp
Unknown mod file: Gracelands BUILD .7B.esp
Unknown mod file: Kawaii.esp
Unknown mod file: FireglowSword.esp
Unknown mod file: TESTSword.esp
Unknown mod file: AHIRUs_Glasses_v1.esp
Unknown mod file: cmSashaSonja.esp
Unknown mod file: SRJhealCompanion.esp
Unknown mod file: Lamayo's Dragon Bow.esp
Unknown mod file: Hip-huggers.esp
Unknown mod file: Camp Simplicity.esp
Unknown mod file: UniversalOblivionMod.esp

as for camaro: I could probably delete unlimited amulets....It doesn't seem to work for some reason. Unlimited Rings does work, but the amulets, every time I put on a amulet with an item that uses the amulet slot, the amulet gets equiped, but the amulet slot item gets removed (unequipped)

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:14 am

Yup, everything after the OGE support plugin. That is a ton of plugins to sort. You need to get your load order into a working order. That is not it. When you post that list in the BOSS thread, you should link every plugin to its respective upload page. Do you have the latest version of BOSS installed? I am surprised Reneer's Rain mod is not already recognized, but you need to sort that list regardless. I need to make a load order template...

You can use my load order as a reference to put your mods in order for now. I will try to create a quick template to post, and post it on TESIV:POSItive for future reference. I added some brief comments by which you should be able to move those unknown plugins into a reasonable category.

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm  <-- ESMs01  underdark.esm02  GTAesgaard_2.esm03  Cybiades.esm  [Version 2.0]04  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 0.9.9]05  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm06  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm07  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]08  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]09  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]0A  CyrodiilUpgradeResourcePack.esm0B  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.39c]0C  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]0D  Better Cities Resources.esm0E  CURP_Controller.esm0F  Progress.esm  [Version 2.2]10  CM Partners.esm11  TRoN.esp  <-- plugins that need to load early**  TNR (Merged).esp12  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.5]13  DLCShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 1.4.0]14  SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp  [Version 1.05]15  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp16  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp++  FranDarkSeducerWeapFix.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]17  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]18  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 0.9.9]  <-- environmental mods and early loading tweaks19  All Natural.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1A  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  All Natural - EW + AWS.esp  [Version Final]1B  Enhanced Water (Merged).esp1C  MIS.esp1D  Storms & Sound.esp1E  WindowLightingSystem.esp1F  7lbsBedrolls-OBSE.esp20  ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp21  ImprovedSigns.esp22  P1DseeYouSleep.esp23  Reznod_Mannequin.esp24  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 3.4.3]25  Choices and Consequences.esp  [Version 2.02]26  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.4]27  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.0.2]28  sr_super_hotkeys.esp29  DLCSpellTomes.esp  <-- new items++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]2A  XiaNewAmuletsV1.esp2B  Merged - New Items.esp2C  kuerteeHorseCommands.esp2D  KDCircletsOOOOptimized - NPC Equip.esp  [Version 1.2]++  FCOM_KDCircletsOOOOptimizedNPCEquip.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2E  Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp2F  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]  <-- COBL30  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]31  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]32  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp33  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]34  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]35  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp   <-- Overhauls I36  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]37  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]++  OOO-Better_Priced_Clutter.esp++  OOO-Water_Weeds.esp  [Version 1.33]++  OOO_XiaNewAmulets Addon.esp  [Version 0.5]38  OMOBS (Merged).esp  [Version 1.0]39  Choices and Consequences - OOO.esp  [Version 2.0]3A  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]3B  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3C  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3D  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life No Gates.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Bone Loot.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3E  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3F  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  TamrielTravellerAdvscript.esp  [Version 1.40Alpha]40  TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp  [Version 1.39c]++  TamrielTravellersItemsNPC.esp  [Version 1.39c]41  TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp  [Version 1.39c]42  ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp  [Version 1.39c]**  Merged - Graphics NoMerge.esp++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 1.0]++  FCOM_ArcheryRealSwords.esp  [Version 2]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  PersuasionOverhaul_OOO.esp  [Version 1.2]++  PersuasionOverhaul_MMM.esp  [Version 1.2]43  AlchemistsCave-COBL.esp  <-- new buildings and locations44  Amajor7 Imperial Furniture.esp45  BenirusManorRebuilt.esp46  Gift of Kynareth.esp  <-- quests I47  GTAesgaard.esp48  GTAesgaard_2.esp49  HeartOftheDead.esp  [Version 6.2]4A  Kragenir's Death Quest.esp4B  KDQ - Rural Line Additions.esp4C  GlenvarCastle.esp4D  Kvatch Reclaimed.esp4E  Slof's Oblivion Goth Shop.esp4F  Sylar_INNMergedCyrodillInnsRevised.esp50  Sylar_INNMergedCyrodillInnsRevised_COCPatch.esp51  The Ayleid Steps.esp  [Version 3.3]52  The Black Cat Jewelry Store - Daedric Statues.esp53  TheElderCouncil.esp54  TheForgottenShields.esp55  VaultsofCyrodiilBC.esp56  VHBloodlines 1.2.esp  [Version 1.5]57  za_bankmod.esp58  zDangerSense.esp59  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp5A  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]5B  SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp  [Version 1.2]5C  Knights.esp5D  Knights - 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» Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:15 pm

erm, I appreciate this help with LO, but I don't believe my LO is where the problem lies. I will focus on my LO later when I have fixed the problem at hand.

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:40 am

Do what you want, but if you are unwilling to sort those unknown plugins, deactivate them for now. Having a nonsensical load order is not helping you scout down problems.

» Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:03 am

Do what you want, but if you are unwilling to sort those unknown plugins, deactivate them for now. Having a nonsensical load order is not helping you scout down problems.

thats fine, they are not important to me.
But as I said, I already tested turning off all my mods and seeing if it fixed the problem, and it did not...so, it just shows those mods are not the cause.