Note that I'm completely new to "lore stuff." It's not that I don't love Morrowind (and love Oblivion too, as a mother loves even an ugly, inferior child), but I've been away from the Elder Scrolls for quite a while; and although I know most of the basic lore, I've never really gotten stuck in. However, now that I'm playing through Morrowind and (eventually) Oblivion again, I plan to carefully collect and read each book, note, and scroll, make note of any lore-filled conversations with NPCs, and essentially take the time to stop and smell the Draggle-Tails.

To that end, I've been reading random websites with information about Elder Scrolls lore. I discovered this today:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falmer_(Elder_Scrolls)#Bosmer

Now maybe I missed something in my old journeys, but in no Elder Scrolls game I'm aware of are Bosmer characters prohibited from practicing Alchemy, from dabbling in wortcraft, or from eating vegetarian meals, for that matter.

And as for consuming the corpses of fallen enemies, that would actually be easy to implement. There's a "dispose of corpse" function in Morrowind already, eh-heh....

Is the lore I quoted inaccurate, outdated (i.e., from an earlier Era), or is the Green Pact simply ignored? Is it perhaps not enforced outside of Valenwood?

More to the point, why would Bethesda pen such a restrictive belief system for one of the premiere races in its cRPG series? (This lore would be fine in a pen-and-paper game, but not an electronic one wherein it's difficult or impossible to simulate the restrictions and still allow players to progress through the game normally.)

The green pact only applies to Valenwood's forests, and none of them seem to practice it outside their home province. They aren't physically unable, just religiously prohibited. The player could ignore it if they wished, or as I have done, obey it. Which makes alchemy a lot more complicated. Imported plants seem to be ok as well.

Woah, Bosmers are cannibals now? Remind me never to mess with Fargoth again.

They've been cannibals for a long time. May be a reason why many of them are crazy too, picked up a nasty neurodegenerative disease after eating too many brains

Maybe that's how "dispose of corpse" worked

game mechanics.

anyways, i would asume that many bosmer outside of valenwood dont follow the greenpact, either because they are not as zealous as their back home counterparts or because such a diet is rather hard to enforce in places not made for it. Alchemy can be practiced with meat, minerals, and other non-plant ingredients, so i think they are fine on that end. We can also asume that some of the level designers did not know about this, as its not the most advertised piece of information.

you say restrictive, i say "cool." when one thinks of the typical wood elf one thinks a hippy pacifist living in trees, not a cannibalistic race that is prohibited from using any plant matter by their religion. it sets them apart from the norm and really defines them as "bosmer"

Agreed

Cannibalistic Wood Elfs...god I love the ES settings

One explanation was that they do not understand outlanders' mannerisms, being inherently selfish and unfriendly. Those who live outisde valenwood attempt to adopt a more cyrodiilic manner, but overdo it, leading to the creepily overfriendly and neurotic seeming Bosmer of Oblivion and Morrowind. You can see their real personality when you piss one of them off. Outiside the main quests, a lot of the angry unstable characters are Bosmer.

Yes, I have been aware of this for a while, and read a few topics about it. As I understand it, it is more of a religious choice each bosmer makes. However, the Valenwood government undoubtedly enforces strict laws prohibiting the violation. Most bosmer that left Valenwood and appear in Tes ganes most likely gave it up when they left, or were ostracized from their new homes after people saw them following the pact. And then probably changed their values.

As to the PC not having to follow it, that is a personal choice. Should TesV be in Valenwood, I expect it shall be more strictly enforced. Equivelant to stealing or assault in the rest of the provinces.

Ah, I see Lady Nerevar took care of that. ^_^ And nice thought turns-the-page, sounds reasonable.

Someone else posted it about a year ago, I was merely repeating what seemed like a valid theory.

I'm referring strictly to game mechanics, not how interesting or original the lore is. The fact of the matter is, there are a lot of requirements and restrictions inherent in the Green Pact, cool or no; and if an Elder Scrolls game is set in Valenwood sometime in the future, it will be interesting to see how Bethesda implements those restrictions.

If I had to guess, I'd say their solution would be to pull another Levitation Act, and set the game during an Era in which the Green Pact has been repealed (or is being ignored because Bosmer society has fallen into chaos, et cetera).

Keeping in mind that this is a series of computer games, if you create lore for a playable race that's impossible to accurately represent in-game, then it can become something of a moot point. The fact that hardcoe fans and roleplayers may already be willing to enforce those restrictions on their characters in a meta-game sense is also somewhat of a moot point, because such players are a relatively small minority of the player base.

Roleplayers are a small minoritty of the fanbase of an RPG? If only that weren't true.

I think it could be fairly simple to implement, myself. You already can't chop down trees or build things, so the only real thing to worry about is alchemy, and then, as is stated, they have a lot more non-plant materials they use or import some. All they would have to do is make a bounty for harvesting plants, and even then there is rarely a guard in the middle of the forest, so I don't think it would be a real problem. Or they will simply ignore it, which is also likely. And god forbid they take it away with a sudden lore change :stare:

They'd probably implement them to about the same degree they implemented the restrictions on the trade in Dwemer artifacts, or hopefully to at least the degree restrictions on trade in Moon Sugar and Skooma were implemented.

Thinking on the Green Pact, two thoughts occurred to me, as to the possible origins of this Pact. The first is an old idea of mine, the idea that there is a link between the "Tree Sap People" (that's what Bosmer translates to), and Argonian practices involving Hist sap. Perhaps the Hist have roots in Valenwood as well, and established this code to ensure the Bosmer don't cut them down. The second possibility is this. Nowhere is the memory of one particular aspect of the earliest days, that period during which men turned into animals and flowers and trees and birds and back and forth again. It is they who maintain the memory of Yffre (or Jephere, as I have seen it written elsewhere), who put a stop to this.

Perhaps the Bosmer believe (or perhaps knew for a fact, when the Code was first established?) that many, if not most, of the plants are actually relatives of theirs. This doesn't help with explaining why they do eat animals, but it may be a clue. Perhaps I'm missing something.

Well, not all roleplayers are of the hardcoe variety, and the definition of a "roleplayer" is very subjective. You've got:

• Non-Roleplayer: People who think roleplaying is stupid, name their character "sephirothownzu," and bumble through the game world stealing everything and "pwning noobs."
  
  
• Casual: People who believe that simply playing an RPG constitutes roleplaying (depends on the person; for some, this really is a sufficient level of roleplay for their needs).
  
  
• Intermediate: People who may invent a basic backstory for their character and generally shape their in-game behavior according to the character's personality.
  
  
• hardcoe: People who invent elaborate backstories for their characters, never act "out of character" or contradict lore, and frequently engage in "stop and smell the roses" behavior.
  
  
• People who enforce eating, drinking and sleeping on their characters, don't carry unrealistic amounts of gear, et cetera (these are in fact simulationists, who may or may not also be hardcoe roleplayers)

But yeah, I'm getting way off topic in my own thread. I'll add more thoughts on the Green Code and everyone's take on it a bit later, for now I have to run.

For some reason, at this point, I fear that if TES V is in Valenwood they will change it to some vanilla setting and we end up having tree hugging bosmer anyway.

As long as the Bosmer aren't the elves from Overlord II I'll be happy

I always thought it was kind of like Outland Dunmer, that it's primarily inside the Province itself, so a Bosmer born in, say, Cyrodiil and raised there by parents who may also have been born outside valenwood might well ignore the usual stipulations.

But I like Turn's theary too.

If it's true that it's only practised in the home province i doubt TES will ever visit Valenwood...

There's a neat phrase I found: "The key to creativity is yanking convention inside-out." In which case, a game taking place in a society full of cannibalistic elves probably tops the list.

Heh, the secret is out.
I always thought it applied to Valenwood Forest, and like many real world counterparts, just because religion dictates dietary and cultural restrictions, it doesn't mean that
the ethnic group always follows them.

Like how would they make more the half of the people of the game eat dead corpses and still make it not-grose.... that's impossible...

Who said anything about not making it gross?

It would be mostly implied cannibalism anyway. Taunts when you die ("Grab a spit and get a fire going! Do we have enough spices?"), implications in quests, stumbling upon native brigands wearing nothing but animal skins crouched around a half-eaten corpse and praying to the trees, etc.

Obviously if the game took place in Valenwood you wouldn't be from Valenwood. Just like how in Morrowind you can fulfill the prophecy of being an outlander even if you choose to play as a Dunmer.

Being a Bosmer from Valenwood in a TES that takes place in Valenwood would be win imo.

You still should be able to see native bosmer do it as I already told... not every enemy bosmer is fighting you...