The Brevity Thread

Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:30 am

Brevity is the soul of wit, apparently, so I've made a thread to ask for some definitions of TES terms, but everyone should ask actually. It's painfully obvious that some things in TES are painfully wordy, and it would be nice to have a little chair to stand on as we try to peer over the wall into the world of sharmats, eggs and love.

For example, could someone define "Daedra" to the best of their ability, but not relying on tsunamis of links and pages of quotes of the Imperial Library?

And, for the sake of newcomers, could you also define "CHIM" in a concise and detailed way as is possible?
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Ysabelle
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:41 am

Brevity is the soul of wit, apparently, so I've made a thread to ask for some definitions of TES terms, but everyone should ask actually. It's painfully obvious that some things in TES are painfully wordy, and it would be nice to have a little chair to stand on as we try to peer over the wall into the world of sharmats, eggs and love.

The problem is that some of these aren't easy to define. Some pretty simple terms actually yield complexities and contradictions when further explored.

For example, could someone define "Daedra" to the best of their ability, but not relying on tsunamis of links and pages of quotes of the Imperial Library?

Daedra - the class of beings that dwell in the void of Oblivion. The word can refer to both Princes, who hold dominion over abstract qualities, like gods, or their minions. Supposedly they never took part in the Creation and are therefore not bound to the same rules as the Aedra, who can reputedly die because of that participation. The word means "not our ancestors", as opposed to "aedra" which means "our ancestors", following Aldmeri beliefs.

Daedra are often associated with Padomay, which is one of two principles responsible for the creation of the universe (Aurbis). Padomay is identified as a form of chaos, as opposed to Anu, order, with which the Aedra are typically associated. However, this is not a rule, and we are aware of some Daedra that might properly be associated with Anu.

One source says the Daedric minions are part of the Daedra Princes, since the latter are supposedly incapable of creation. But another source says their realms are made not from their own bodies, but (perhaps additionally) from so-called creatia leaking in from Aetherius. Yet another source appears to contradict the idea that the minions are merely aspects of the Prince by showing examples of rogue Daedra. The question continues to be controversial.

Okay, that wasn't very brief at all, but I wanted to cover as much as possible.

And, for the sake of newcomers, could you also define "CHIM" in a concise and detailed way as is possible?

CHIM, at its most basic, is a form of gnostic realisation in which the illusory and solipsistic nature of the world is recognised and wielded it to effect change. It's said to be difficult to maintain, becuse one must balance the concept of being both an individual and part of a pantheistic, all-encompassing Godhead. Can perhaps be compared to the recognition of a dream while you're dreaming it, seeing that all characters in the dream are actually you, and that since it happens in your mind, you can change things. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dreaming.
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Brooke Turner
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:37 am

You know in that movie the matrix, where Neo realizes he's in a huge video game, and everywhere he looks he sees code instead of people? At that point, he begins to be able to "edit" the code and perform superhuman feats, right?

That's kinda' what CHIM is. Kinda'.

Maybe not detailed, but certainly concise. Pop culture references are always a safe bet when explaining an abstract concept. That's one thing you pick up on pretty early if you teach highschool.

So anyway, there is no spoon.
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Alan Whiston
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:39 pm

Thank you Albides and Dude.

Of course, I saw from beginning the implications of simplifying the mythopoeic, but as Einstein said, if you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough! :D

To be honest, I did not know that about the Daedr.. If the Daedra did not participate in the creation, where did they come from?

What does Aedra mean?
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M!KkI
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:42 am

Aedra = Ancestor.

"Aedra are associated with stasis. Daedra represent change.

Aedra created the mortal world and are bound to the Earth Bones. Daedra, who cannot create, have the power to change.

As part of the divine contract of creation, the Aedra can be killed. Witness Lorkhan and the moons.

The protean Daedra, for whom the rules do not apply, can only be banished.
" - http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/aedra_daedra.shtml

I cant really define the term Aedra, but I belive it's similar to what it says from the quote.
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Victoria Vasileva
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 11:10 am

If the Daedra did not participate in the creation, where did they come from?


The answer to this question will often vary depending upon the source. For example, one source (because we are avoiding links and whatnot) states that the Daedra are the co-mingled blood of Anu and Padomay, while another source states that the Daedra are simply the et'Ada the did not participate in creation.

In any sense, most Daedra have been here since the beginning of Time. Sheogorath, however, is said to have emerged simultaneously with the removal of Lorkhan's Heart.

___TWM
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James Wilson
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:19 am

states that the Daedra are the co-mingled blood of Anu and Padomay


You got it mixed up. The Daedra are the blood of Padomay.
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Georgine Lee
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:46 pm

Daedra are demons.

CHIM is enlightenment.
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Rodney C
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:38 am

You got it mixed up. The Daedra are the blood of Padomay.


Anu and Padomay. What are they? Physical beings or concepts?
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ijohnnny
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:51 am

Anu and Padomay. What are they? Physical beings or concepts?


They're eternal concepts that often represent stasis and change, or whatever pattern that shows two participating conflicts in the universe. Frankly, I don't know what they are. So, I'll let smarter men dazzle you with brilliance than baffle you with [censored].
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Javier Borjas
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:40 pm

You got it mixed up. The Daedra are the blood of Padomay.

Huzzah for KnightMariel! (And BOOOO for me....)

Allow me to restate, since I it being early where I'm from causes me to write stupid ****.

The Daedra are the blood of Padomay, while the co-mingled blood of Anu and Padomay became the Aedra."

___TWM

EDIT: "ANU" is a vast (read: infinite) realm sitting in "the Void". Anu represents the primordeal force of "stasis" or "IS".

"PADOMAY" is a vast (read: infinite) realm sitting in "the Void". Padomay represents the primordeal force of "change" or "IS NOT".

Where stasis (ANU) touches change (PADOMAY) in the cosmos, their intersecting circle ("the first brush") is what creates a concept known as "possibility".

Without Anu and Padomay, nothing would be "possible". Get the idea?
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Markie Mark
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 12:13 pm

I have a question myself. What is "dai" or the "variation map"?
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Charity Hughes
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 11:23 am

"Dai" is the word for a map calculating all the possibilities associated with naming ("creating") a universe. It is a complex set of conditions (limitations, as in PADOMAY) that focuses the IS/IS NOT possibilites into form.

(Or at least that's my take on it.)

___TWM
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Annick Charron
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:14 am

Huzzah for KnightMariel! (And BOOOO for me....)

Allow me to restate, since I it being early where I'm from causes me to write stupid ****.

The Daedra are the blood of Padomay, while the co-mingled blood of Anu and Padomay became the Aedra."

___TWM

EDIT: "ANU" is a vast (read: infinite) realm sitting in "the Void". Anu represents the primordeal force of "stasis" or "IS".

"PADOMAY" is a vast (read: infinite) realm sitting in "the Void". Padomay represents the primordeal force of "change" or "IS NOT".

Where stasis (ANU) touches change (PADOMAY) in the cosmos, their intersecting circle ("the first brush") is what creates a concept known as "possibility".

Without Anu and Padomay, nothing would be "possible". Get the idea?

And just to make things extremly clear for me, it is this "Void" that is the concept also called Sithis, right?
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Angela Woods
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:15 pm

"Dai" is the word for a map calculating all the possibilities associated with naming ("creating") a universe. It is a complex set of conditions (limitations, as in PADOMAY) that focuses the IS/IS NOT possibilites into form.

(Or at least that's my take on it.)

___TWM


Who in existence could create such a map?

That takes us on to my next awesome question, The Elder Scrolls - What are they and how did they come about? Are they something to do with this "dai map" that you spoke of? (Including foretelling furture events.)
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Angel Torres
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:00 pm

And just to make things extremly clear for me, it is this "Void" that is the concept also called Sithis, right?


In this case, Sithis is Padomay.

TWM: I'm not sure what to think of it, but I appreciate you answering my question.
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Luna Lovegood
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:03 pm

Daedra are demons.

CHIM is enlightenment.


Weren't there actual demons in Daggerfell, or Arena? I don't remember which but I remember hearing it a long time ago. Daedra aren't evil, like people associate demons with, Daedra are just...daedra, or am I wrong?

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Chelsea Head
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:11 am


Daedra aren't evil, like people associate demons with, Daedra are just...daedra, or am I wrong?

You are right, demons (derived from daimons) was, as stated in a book I cannot remember the name of, probably once a misspelling of Daedra, hence the confusion.
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Kristina Campbell
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:42 am

And just to make things extremly clear for me, it is this "Void" that is the concept also called Sithis, right?

No. The Void split into Anu and Padomay, who each gave birth to their souls, Auriel and Sithis respectively.

Who in existence could create such a map?

That takes us on to my next awesome question, The Elder Scrolls - What are they and how did they come about? Are they something to do with this "dai map" that you spoke of? (Including foretelling furture events.)

Who could create such a map? Well, according to the Tsaesci, there was once an egg that split into twelve serpents that had names. The names of the serpents were alive in and of themselves, because the names were symbolically represented by smaller eggs. Everytime an egg (i.e., a world) goes through the Striking (i.e., fragmenting into other worlds), there are inherent risks. Some eggs are reduced to "calculation powder" (i.e., destroyed), while others go on to become "dreugh-waters". Dreugh-waters encompass all the risks associated with Striking the egg (read: symbolic for Padomay or, in some cases, Lorkhan).

But to summarize, the stomachs of the serpents send out "signals", which, in turn, are written down into a document of those dreugh-water conditions, a map called a "dai". So, yes, the dai does seem to be similar in nature to the Elder Scrolls, although there has been no mention of any "prophetic" ability inherent in the dai. They could be the enantiomorphic profane version of the mythopoeic Scrolls. (If you adhere to the "all is split in two" college, which I have yet to decide upon personally.)

The whole process is cyclical; the eggs are then eaten by the serpent for the process to begin again.

Hard to wrap one's mind around, I know, and since there have not been an extreme amount of writing on the dai, much of what I just said is my own interpretation.

In this case, Sithis is Padomay.


Sithis is not necessarily Padomay. Once Anu and Padomay saw each other (nevermind the fact that they are supposed to be forces instead of beings, just play along), each gave birth its respective "soul". Anu gave birth to its soul called "Auriel". Padomay gave birth to its soul, "Sithis".


___TWM
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Quick draw II
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:10 am

Daedra are demons.

CHIM is enlightenment.


Wrong and wrong.

CHIM was explained masterfully by the Dude, no need to add to it I think.

Daedra are not demons, although they might get associated with them. Oblivion (the game) was rather limited to this until Shivering Isles, which give much better view. Note also that Daedra might be quite something different than we think, considering the interview of http://www.imperial-library.info/interviews/si_interview.shtml.
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Louise
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:25 am

Wrong and wrong.

He knows that.
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Victoria Vasileva
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:13 am


Weren't there actual demons in Daggerfell, or Arena? I don't remember which but I remember hearing it a long time ago. Daedra aren't evil, like people associate demons with, Daedra are just...daedra, or am I wrong?


Demon is a bastardization of the greek word for knowledge. Only in a Judeo-Christian light does it take on malevolent connotations, considering forbidden and carnal knowledge. Just like Devil. It comes from "deva" which merely means spirit.

*shrugs*

Don't really care, I'm just sayin'. You know how I love to play Devil's (or deva's as the case may be) advocate. ;)

QUOTE (The Word Merchant @ Apr 9 2008, 10:42 AM)
Sithis is not necessarily Padomay. Once Anu and Padomay saw each other (nevermind the fact that they are supposed to be forces instead of beings, just play along), each gave birth its respective "soul". Anu gave birth to its soul called "Auriel". Padomay gave birth to its soul, "Sithis".



I thought the soul was called Anu-El. WTF? I'm confusticated now. I always get Auriel and Anu-El mixed up.
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Maddy Paul
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 11:36 am

"Dai" is the word for a map calculating all the possibilities associated with naming ("creating") a universe. It is a complex set of conditions (limitations, as in PADOMAY) that focuses the IS/IS NOT possibilites into form.

(Or at least that's my take on it.)

___TWM

So.....how does this relate to a Dai-katana?
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Penny Wills
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:43 pm

What about the "creation" of poop? Dai-errhea!
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Portions
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:36 am

Yeah but Neo wasn't really the One. As in a sense of godhood or anything. Just someone given "powers" by the program. *shrugs* Oh yeah and The Matrix is based off of an old comic. *pokes*

Err that's sort of off topic. Let me come up with something for the OP.

Daedra are meddlers. Contact Zenimax support for information on CHIM.
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Rowena
 
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