The end of the game seems to strongly imply The Brotherhood will probably return to The Commonwealth one day after the defeat at Logan Airport. So in all endings but The Brotherhood's own, it seems pretty likely that the victorious faction sans Brotherhood will have to fight them again at some point. Kind of an interesting little twist on Elder's Lyons same prediction about the Enclave in Fallout 3.

Father specifically crafts The Institute ending to send a message to The Brotherhood namely: If you return, we'll turn your own weapons of war against you. Stay away if you know what's good for you. I personally feel reasonably confident as Director that The Institute will be able to defeat The Brotherhood a second time if needbe.

My question though, is mainly what about The Railroad and The Minutemen (assuming The MM destroy them as well). What defenses do they have against a Brotherhood resurgent? Would they be able to stand against The Brotherhood's return? In both of those endings, The Institute is now gone: so the full brunt of The Brotherhood can be brought to bear against those two factions.

As an interesting side-note, I realized that in my first playthrough I never actually killed Maxson with my own two hands. I just trusted that Maxson was squashed by The Prydwen. But really, I have no way of knowing that he's actually dead. And, as far as I know, his body is missing if you go back to the airport right after the battle. This might only apply to The Institute ending really, but what are the chances Maxson survived in you didn't kill him outright? What would he do now if he did?

Some interesting what-ifs.

The railroad and Minutemen depend on how powerful they grow. I think the Minutemen could potentially fight the brotherhood depending on the BOS numbers. The Railroad I'm not to sure on. As far as Maxson himself that's a tougher situation cause it depends entirely on how he reacts to such a loss. He could become a complete hardliner and fight even zealous than before or he could become disillusioned and depressed.

I personally have serious doubts The MM could stand toe-to-toe with a Brotherhood force. If gameplay is any indication, The MM are so weak that using the flare-gun is essentially worthless come a certain point.

The Railroad could at least try and hide, but The MM would have to stand and fight.

It reminds me of the Autumn situation in Fallout 3 if you let him live.

Although in this case, Maxson would have survived after leading from the front rather than Autumn slinking away like a coward. I have to give Maxson credit in that he came down personally to fight me and didn't back down. So I think there's a reasonable chance he'll try to make his way back. Since he might consider his honor "intact."

But on the other hand, he might blame himself for leading The Brotherhood to such a disastrous defeat in the first place.

Well, the Minutemen are rapidly growing, and if the NCR are any indication, the Brotherhood is weak against large numbers.


If they keep growing, the MM could have a fighting chance against the Brotherhood if they return.

The NCR were weaker than the brotherhood but still won through sheer numbers. We would need to know the numbers of the brotherhood before we could make any guess. As far as Maxson I think the latter would be more interesting to see but the former far more likely.

Sure if The Brotherhood comes back in 50+ years or something and The CPG has become a reality.

I imagine The Brotherhood wouldn't wait that long though. If they come back, they'll probably hit back while they're still enraged by the deaths of their comrades.

Maybe but there's also the distance between the capital and the commonwealth. First the brotherhood needs to be notified about thier defeat and seeing how many of the Vertibirds are sent as a retaliaion against the castle or destroyed with the Prydwen I imagine that'll take a couple of years at least. Since at that point they have to travel on foot.

Let me be blunt right out..... I think the Brotherhood (at least this faction) is in big trouble after the endings. (well the ones there destroyed). I can not see Mad Max leaving fight worthy assests behind, so This was a blow no matter how ya slice it. Plus if he dies well whats to say there not stuck in mire of useless leaders again.

And my personal thoughts about the RR is, by the time those Tin Cans make it back...... They will be long gone. So there really gonna have to hunt them out for there REVENGE.... But that is a hard sell to soldiers... I suspect they would just go all homeland security in there neck of the woods hoping to catch a synth to shoot, I guess.

Minute Men I doubt they would return either.... Just because whats really here (commenwealth) for them, less they want some words about using Laser Muskets is an abomination its tech only they should be able to use.

(sorry my anti BOS snark bleed through, I tried not to let it but well they certainly did nothing this game to make me like em more)

Even a couple of years would still leave the MM in a precarious position.

The CPG couldn't get organized in four years. And until it forms, The MM are still just a volunteer militia group with a figure-head for a leader.

As a RR guy, I had this thought myself. I would have to ask more lore knowledgeable people, but does the Brotherhood in the Commonwealth represent THE Brotherhood very well? By that I mean, was Maxson the de facto leader, such that his death is going to prompt a vigorous military response? Or is it possible that his death will leave a power vacuum that they will have to struggle to fill? Also, did the Prydwen represent a sizable commitment of Brotherhood force or was this the tip of the spear? Is there a Prydwen 2 or any other aerial based transport (besides Vertibirds) that the Brotherhood has?

Knowing how the Brotherhood rolls, I have a feeling that a diplomatic response would be slim, but if there isn't another Prydwen it would have to be a ground based invasion. The Railroad has somewhat exposed themselves, so if the Brotherhood comes for blood, they will go back underground. Depending on if they can recover the location of the church from the archive on the Prydwen (or if that broadcast that information) they might have to relocate their base as well. From there on out, it becomes a guerrilla warfare thing, and it just remains to be seen whose will and resources will last. I feel like the Brotherhood would have to tap the local population to sustain their war effort and that would burn through any good will they had left. Forced occupation doesn't endear you to a populace.

Furthermore, the main reason the BoS came to the Commonwealth was to destroy the Institute. Since that goal IS accomplished, I have a feeling that whoever takes over the mantle would not be so eager to jump back into the Commonwealth in force, just to go after a rag tag group. They might try, but as I said above, I feel like the miseries they would incur in such a campaign would be such that they wouldn't bother to see it through. I also firmly believe that one of the natural outcomes of the RR is going to be them reformatting themselves. I could see them becoming some secretive human/synth organization that works with the Minutemen or becomes infused into the Minutemen. The RR would then be the brains and intelligence portion of the Commonwealth and the Minutemen would be the force. If that holds true, then I think the BoS would have an even harder time faced with such an organization.

Again, most of my thoughts so far rest on how big the BoS is and how they are going to respond to this kind of attack. My final thought however, is how the attack might be construed. If, and this is a big if, but if they send an small recon team to the Commonwealth for information or if they even agree to meet with the leaders of the Railroad, then we might be able to make a peace deal centered around the fact that the BoS struck the Railroad first and with deadly force. I still do not understand why the BoS did this. Yes, the RR is helping synths escape and they probably wouldn't be best friends in any case, but whatever happened to the enemy of my enemy? Most importantly, it seems like a horrific military blunder to attack the small fish when you have much bigger fish to fry, ESPECIALLY because once the Institute was out of the picture, the Railroad would no longer have a reason to exist. How could Maxson not see this? If he is so rabid about their destruction that he must necessarily track down and destroy each and every single synth, then I guess it makes more sense, but that is just incredibly stupid. Especially since he has one serving under his nose for the entirety of the game as his right hand man lol. A good leader looks at how to achieve his goal with the least expenditure of blood and resources. Maxson's youth and naivety show readily throughout his entire campaign.

edit:

I should give Maxson a little credit in that he was also in the Commonwealth to eradicate Super Mutants, Ferals, and other nasties, and the Brotherhood is constantly engaged with these groups when they are in the Commonwealth. I agree fully with Danse when he talks about wiping them out in Fort Strong. However, that goal is very much tangential to the primary goal of the BoS in the Commonwealth and still doesn't excuse some of the tactical decisions that Maxson makes.

Also, I know for my part personally, I killed Maxson before I left the Prydwen. I'm surprised you didn't, as the pathway out of the ship leads you right past him and he has some powerful guys at his back. I wouldn't have made it off the ship alive without killing him first. He would've mowed me down.

But I digress. Those are my thoughts on how it would resolve itself. Either way, a full scale invasion would be nasty business. It would be tense as well. I don't see a clear path for the Brotherhood to simply come in and clean house though. I suppose if they had the location of the HQ and they just nuked the place, that would be a decisive sort of revenge pathway, but that would be the only decision I see that is feasible. It sends a message, it repays the loss of the Prydwen, and it requires very little resources from the Brotherhood itself.

Let the Brotherhood come. Come with their power armor and their vertibirds. They'll be crushed under the righteous thunder of freedom's furious drumming.

"Brotherhood Patrol sighted in sector G-02. Calling in ordinance. Bring the rain."

Ya but think if your SS is running the institute THem plus the minute men ( I cant believe I am saying that Go RR) I think a second wave of BOS would fall even faster if they had one to send)

MM on there own or with railroad help maybe but I just dont see it being worth it for whats left Of the BOS

Sure but getting word is only step one. The second part is deciding if Maxson should be leading the brotherhood. I imagine there'll be a dew skeptics of Maxson's leadership after such a defeat. Finally we need to know how they travel back to the commonwealth. How many vertibirds do they have?

In The Institute ending, its pretty easy to avoid killing him since he only comes down during the last minute or so of the battle and he gets distracted fighting the oodles of Synths. One reason I like The Institute ending is that it makes you feel like you're in command of this Synth force. Once you call down the Synth Army and Gorilla Soldiers you can basically just sit back and watch the fireworks. Which is mostly what I did.

In my first playthrough, he fell back behind the hanger building (he drops down on the roof from his verti) and I couldn't be assed to go over there and kill him. I went back after the battle to rummage through the ruins of the airport to see if I could find his dead body or something, but he wasn't there.

Leading me to my current nagging question of "Did he survive?" Its fun to roleplay in-character sending out orders for Watchers to keep an eye out for Maxson and order SRB to track him down. He's like my Bin Laden.

With The Institute ending, I don't see The Brotherhood winning a Round 2 even without The MM. Its no contest there IMO.

I think its a bit more ambiguous with The MM and Railroad endings though. Mainly the MM really, since The Railroad can at least dissipate and remain hidden. Or they'll have disbanded by the time the BOS arrives.

This quote made me lol and made my day simultaneously. This is why Bethesda games are the best imo. So much fertile ground for the imagination.

YA I agree the Institute would be ready for round two, BUT with the MM also friendly... well thats the KInd of PR you can't buy and might go heaps into repairing there uhh commenwealth standing if there fighting off invaders.

Heheh

EDIT--------OHH OHHH calling it now Darth MAX...... full of self loathing... I am an abomination!

I now have an image of the burnt form of Maxson crawling out from underneath burning wreckage at the airport to be picked up by a Brotherhood vertibird, and then given a permanent suit of power armor with life-support to keep him alive. All while Duel of the Fates plays.

Thank you. This is now my official headcanon.

A lot of those BOS troopers were volunteers from the Capitol wasteland. I have a feeling with such a catastrophic loss of men, supplies and most important reputation, the Brotherhood will be hard pressed to recover. They probably won't send another attack force for a long time if ever.

On the other hand, defeats can often be used to great effect if propagandized correctly.

"Remember the Alamo" "Remember Pearl Harbor"

"Remember The Prydwen" etc.

^This


Either mod or dlc, the needs to happen before I die.

Something I have noticed is that Danse tends to shout "Remember the Citadel!", did something happen there I'm not aware about?

I noticed that too. And honestly, I have no idea. But it certainly sounds like something did.

I know the wiki speculates that it might be connected with Sarah Lyons death somehow. Which seems plausible.

Not only have the Brotherhood suffered a huge defeat by losing th ePrydwen and Maxson, they've lost the other leadership option in Kells, as well as their best science and engineering talents in Neriah, Quinlan and Ingram. I doubt they'll ever be able to build another Prydwen or organise themselves for quite a long time. If they sent a message to the West Coast Brotherhood maybe those guys could mobilise something, but the Capital Wasteland BoS will need to spend many many years rebuilding, perhaps giving the Enclave some breathing space to rebuild.

If the E BOS possesses the wherewithal, then yes, they will return. If and when they return it will not be to possess the Commonwealth, but to destroy it.

But, I believe it was Heinz Guderian who said, "Any competent officer can command a panzer division, it takes a genius to supply one".

How quickly can the E BOS recover, both manpower and materially, from the destruction of Prydwen?

Did Maxson survive, or not? What is the political situation in the E BOS if he died?

Can they logistically move a large enough force for a reprisal?

I believe, best case that the E BOS could strike back in 3-5 years. Perhaps sooner if there is some migration of Western BOS, to the East.

Now if the Institute was victorious, the likelihood of the reprisal happening at all is reduced. Even if it happens, the E BOS is likely to suffer yet another defeat. To reduce the chance of defeat the E BOS would probably have to be content with a minor hit and run attack and that is all.

If the RR is the object of the E BOS ire, then reprisal is likely. In order to set an example of what happens to those even suspected of harboring the RR, every settlement and farmstead will be systematically destroyed. Every thing killed to the last brahmin. The Commonwealth will likely be helpless against such an attack.

If the MM destroyed the Prydwen (or if the RR Agent is also the MM General), reprisal is still likely. But, the E BOS forces will have to prepare carefully and strike hard. They will need to use their superior mobility to reduce and eventually eliminate the fixed artillery positions of the MM. After the first couple of settlements have been utterly destroyed, the MM organization will likely fall apart and the survivors will beg for mercy. They may or may not get it.

Finally if the Player Institute Director is also the MM General, then I don't think the E BOS will come back at all. Unless, the E BOS manage to repair and modernize an Iowa Class battleship. Now wouldn't that be interesting.

The Prydwen is irreplaceable. Remember, they had to cannibalize Rivet City's nuclear reactor simply to power the ship to fly, and Fallout 4's main quest makes a pretty big deal out of the fact that working nuclear reactors are priceless artifacts in the post-apocalypse. I doubt the Eastern Brotherhood, if and when they eventually learned of the Prydwen's destruction (Which could be months/years), would really field an overland military expedition to take the Commonwealth, no matter who ultimately brought it down.

If it's the Institute, the Brotherhood would be faced with an army of questionably better technology and disposable troops. The Institute can replace Synth losses far more rapidly then the Brotherhood can replace it's Knights and Paladins.

If it's the Railroad, the Brotherhood would be faced with conquering the Commonwealth piecemeal, never knowing if the settlements seized housed RR operatives and Synth sympathizers. All the while, the Railroad is staging guerrilla assaults on Brotherhood positions and generally making life a living hell for the occupiers.

If it's the Minutemen, the Brotherhood would be lucky to get into the Commonwealth. Again, with an overland march being their only real option with the loss of the Prydwen (and the airport's destruction pretty much zipping up a real staging area for Vertibird support), the Minutemen would have plenty of advanced notice. Plenty of time to position artillery along the route and dig firing positions. At best, the Brotherhood would be looking at WWi style trench warfare which would lead to attrition ratios the Brotherhood can ill afford (See the issue with fighting the Institute).