Goddamnit, don't change the Brotherhood! :cryvaultboy: Let them die as stubborn and uncompromising.

I completely agree with all your opinions but your actions should stop, we can't give our tech to LOCALS. Like they know how to use it anyways.

Oh heaven forbids no, I would sooner shoot myself in the foot than arm Locals with tech, but nothing says we cannot help them when we can, there are plenty of threats out there, Feral Ghouls, Centaurs, Super Mutants to name a few, and the less that can harm locals, the better rep we get with the locals, not to mention sharing water we get from shipments from the Purifier helps too, and personally i want to help the locals myself, they are not savages as the western chapters keep saying, but people like you and me who are just trying to eek out a living. If i had some extra food on me, i would give a extra Fancy lad snack cake to some random kid just to brighten their day just because, does not mean i am a push over though, smashed another locals face into a wall when he tried to clobber me with his friends. Regardless, if we die out, who will be around to protect some local from becoming some despot and carving out a stretch of land into his own empire, or worse yet, letting raiders getting their hands on this stuff, bad enough i had that stupid "Republic of Dave" Idiots a few years back shooting at the squad i was in whenever we got near their compound.

Now i got to go back to the Bunker, thank to the Colonel, my armor smells like fried circuitry, and i will have to get my spare armor..... :banghead:

Dem savages walking around with tesla cannons and gatling lasers pisses me off. What is the world coming too

Serously though, how would it help the wasteland if legion or NCR got a hundred nukes or tanks. I would rather the BoS horde it, than the idiots from both factions start destroying civilisation again.

BoS really devoted fan till i die!

Now i need some abraxo cleaner to clean houses blood of my helmet :celebration:

B.b.b.because the developers didnt allow it. Boom theres your answer.

Damn straight. No point in keeping the Brotherhood around if it's just going to be another generic defender of the wasteland faction open to everyone. You can "reform" the Brotherhood over their cold dead bodies.

A member of the BoS was over heard to say "We R Who We R" in honor of Kesha haha

Personally, I'd like to see the Western Brotherhood as sort of a "client state" to the NCR; they're permitted to operate autonomously within NCR territory (and recover unowned tech) as long as they provide the NCR with military assistance and respect its laws.

That way the Western Brotherhood can retain its core principles and a cool faction isn't wiped off the face of the map. Win-win.

"walking back to the bunker with tech in tow" Again my outcast Brother shows his wisdom, I would agree here without repeating what was said. Maybe sometime in the future, the ideals of the Lyons Brotherhood would come to this state, but that is wishful thinking on my part. After all, you cannot keep recruiting from within, i was told by some Scribes you got to liven up the gene pool sometimes. * Clearing my throat* Anyway, we got to keep our eyes open for ambushes, we got a lot of valuable tech, and we could use it.

Sooner or later Lyons will run out of fuel, he is obviously using the weapons and power armor caches from the pentagon, and his iniates are still dropping like flies, he is giving tech to locals, and he will eventually go dry, then the outcasts will end up genociding people to reclaim the tech, being much better at fighting then the locals. Lyons is just setting the CW up to fall down farther than it ever was.

I'm curious, what makes you think the BoS is not unquestionably the dominant force in the Capital Wasteland as of 2277? They have total control of Adams Air Force Base (and all the Enclave supplies and equipment there), dozens of suits of Advanced Power Armor and incredibly advanced Enclave weapons, and the Super Mutant presence is the only real credible threat remaining (and one that can be cut off at the source, as they now know the origin point and how to enter). Oh, and they have Vertibirds, and if the Brotherhood wasn't able to come up with a counter to Vertibirds you can imagine how East Coast Muties will do.

After seeing the BoS stomp all over the Enclave and reactive the purifier, thus bringing fresh water to the CW, I'd honestly be surprised if adventure-seeking young wastelanders didn't flock to them in droves, and thanks to their victory over the Enclave they have the means to equip a great deal more soldiers than they currently have.

To further expound on my earlier idea, it'd actually be a really interesting way to add some depth to the NCR as well; the Brotherhood could serve as a way to force disobedient cities/unconquered areas into submission. "Play nice or we'll send the BoS, who really don't care about collateral damage, to appropriate your technology, leaving you defenseless and unable to sustain yourselves" would be an...effective...negotiating tool, methinks. It'd also simultaneously serve to add some more shades of grey to the NCR.

You are seriously talking about equipping wastelanders in Enclave gear? You might as well tear the Codex in half, you are no longer part of the Brotherhood, you are a traitor, a deserter, the Outcasts represent the real Brotherhood, keeping dangerous tech away from the masses, so we dont blow ourselves up, Lyons is seeing to our eventual destruction.

No, I'm talking about equipping the Paladins in Enclave gear, as APA is the best armor available, and giving the crappier T-45b to the initates (who aren't wastelanders, by the way). I thought that kinda went without saying.

It's also important to remember that for the East Coast an Initiate, no matter where they came from, is a member of the Brotherhood of Steel; they cease becoming wastelanders and instead become recruits.

You also need to remember that, had it not been for the Lyons Brotherhood, Eden would have committed mass genocide on the capital wasteland. Lyons restored life to the Wasteland and is still keeping all of the advanced tech out of the hands of non-Brotherhood members while he does it.

yes the Initiates are wastelanders, your putting Power Armor on savages. Nobody should be living in the CW in the first place, it is too bad off, I say let the Enclave have it.

I'm not debating that they have the technical skill of wastelanders, but you were calling it heresy because wastelanders were being given advanced tech.

Once they're recruited they become BoS in name, if not yet in skill. They cease being wastelanders.

*pays off Paladin johns tech scribe, with some Enclave issue laser pistol*

*Activates area random dance virus, watches as johns whole bunker start to dance uncontrolably*
*Buys out the bunkers entire supply from his quarter master*

Mostly because they go for long battle of attrition and can't afford it? Even in there advanced tech, they still get killed by Radscorps and raiders consistently. They will end up just like the NCR in NV if they continue there course now, be it will happen even sooner since they don't have nearly the same manpower. They are still vulnerable to the same pitfall the West coast got, death by overwhelming numbers.


EDIT: also Shares the random dance code with all house supporter and Enclave staff.

I'm pretty sure the East Coast BoS can handle a Raider or Radscorpion pretty well.

You can't directly apply ingame stats to the fluff, it often just doesn't translate well in an RPG context.

East Coast is still vulnerable to death by overwhelming numbers, agreed, but it's a moot point because as far as we know there's nobody around to challenge them. They overcame the most significant threat to their authority and once the Mutants are pushed back they will be able to grow in size considerably.

It's an entirely different situation from the West Coast BoS, which had what appears to be the largest cohesive government in the continental United States sitting right on their doorstep.

The so called real brotherhood is a failure all its dignity and glory a rotting husk. Name one helpful thing they've done out west? Keeping advanced technology hasn't stopped wastelanders from killing each other, hell they haven't even kept advanced technology out of peoples hands, just look at the Van Graffs as Veronica says they really dropped the ball on that one. They didn't fight the enclave out west save for some remnants after the Oil Rig blew up. They never did battle with the Master's Army until after it was broken by the masters death. The first real war they fought was against the NCR and they lost badly.

And name one instance of Elder Lyon's handing out tech to wastelanders? they don't trade with outsiders[except for the LW]. The fact they recruit outsiders instead of trying to breed there numbers means they have real potential to expand and adapt. And as they use there technology to help people they would have no shortage of able bodied volunteers. Which means they can expand and expand quickly. The outcasts patrols are no tougher then the brotherhood patrols, (actually there slightly weaker at lower levels). Lost Hill still officially recognizes Elder Lyon's as the leader of the eastern faction. Which means Cassadin and his followers are traitors, who may be hung if they head back west, especially in light of the windfall of Enclave tech.

How would Casadin feel after the end of Broken Steel?, a year ago he abandoned Elder Lyon's and made off with a lot of equipment with the goal of getting back to the true purpose of the brotherhood and what did he accomplish? nothing. What did Elder Lyon's do? get a boat load of Enclave tech and secure the purifier.

I'm pretty sure raiders in FO3 outnumber "towns people" like 20 to 1. Add to that IIRC they still didn't clear up the Super Mutant problem. Also consider that they never had to deal with an organized force(that they didn't get plot armor against) like the Raider gangs of the West. Much less Another government, sized force. To me FO3 doesn't really "prove" anything about them because there was only one way ever for them to be. They literally couldn't lose no matter what.

All video games require representative demographics and hordes of unexplained numbers of enemies. The mutants were also fairly organized and obviously so are the Enclave. The super mutant problem was more come the end of fallout 3. They know where the base is (vault 87) and the SM are running out of green stuff which means no more mutants.

They gave Rivet City some Plasma Rifles. Once BS starts, if you talk to Officer Lepelletier, she mentions it. She's carrying one as well.

Regardless of how you feel about whether the plot was logical, it's still canon.

They dealt with the most organized and professional force in the entire United States and held their own, so I'd say they did pretty okay.

The mutant problem will be easy to clean up with Vertibirds, if the BoS didn't have an answer the mutants sure as hell don't.

The "plot armor" argument is a bit invalid seeing as all Fallout games (and thus the current timeline) are founded on insane plot armor. One man infiltrating massive, heavily defended bases and destroying them by himself? Not hardly likely.
If we want to go with what "realistically" should have happened, the West Coast would've been overrun with a mutant army that was then killed off en masse, along with the rest of the world, by the Enclave virus.

I call plot armor because, there is no choice but for them to live. In FO1 you can side with the master and get dipped and have a "master wins" ending movie. So there you go the "timeline" as you put it could have been very different. The Dev's just picked the "good ending" for FO2. One of the things I don't like in FO2 was the lack of this same choice in FO2. However it was justified, there was no way to join them, and no future games if they won.

Also why not? In the original two games, if you go about it right I don't see why some one wouldn't beable to do it. You get in the Masters base by dressing like one of the cathedral guys and sneaking into his room. where you can talk him into blowing up his base, or fighting him and doing it yourself. Same with the Enclave base when everyone is dressed in APA you blend right in on the oil rig. You in no way have to shot everyone in the base in either scenario. IN FO3 you don't even get to fight in the end either, like you could with the Master and on the oil rig.

Anyway, Lyons basically stated that they where on there last legs right before the enclave get shoehorned in. I don't see there status changing anything soon.

In FO3 if you drop the FEV into the purifier it's going to kill the entire Brotherhood, so you do have a choice, actually. Not as much as earlier games perhaps, but a choice nonetheless. You also get to fight Autumn and his supporting troops at the end, so that's not entirely true either. Granted, not as epic as the Master or Horrigan, but it's still a fight.

Both of the scenarios from FO1 and FO2 require embarrassingly poor security; while it's possible in the case of super mutants (although still highly unlikely, and you'd think he'd have decent guards), there's not a snowball's chance in hell you'd get into the main base of an organization as professional as the Enclave without at least getting challenged for name, rank, etc, and in a group that small they'd easily be able to call a false ID on the spot. You can't just walk onto a US Army base if you're wearing an American army uniform, for example. Furthermore, in a culture that's been isolated from the mainland for nearly 200 years, a foreigner is going to stick out like a sore thumb.

The Brotherhood is in a much stronger position after defeating the Enclave because they have popular support thanks to the purifier and (most importantly) the Enclave tech. This really is huge; they can replace their outdated T-45d and projectile weaponry with the best armor there is and advanced energy weapons. They also got Vertibirds, which is perhaps the most important part; they can wipe the Super Mutants off of the map with Vertibirds. Finally, they have Adams Air Force Base, a safe and mutant-free military installation.

So yeah, it's going to take them a while to get the situation fully under control, but thanks to the Enclave loot they're pretty set by the end of FO3BS.

There's just no way mutants can compete with Vertibirds, let alone Prime when he gets rebuilt, and now that they know the muties are coming from Vault 87 they can just alpha strike it with whatever Vertibirds they captured and cut the mutants off at the source.

Except they can't use the Enclave armour on regular bases, as they are well know.

The battles in Broken Steel are costly as well, losing Liberty Prim and half dozen Paladin at the Array, lost another dozen to get the Lone Wanderer into Adam Airforce Base; then they may lost Knights and Paladins while transporting the water across DC.

The Brotherhoood doesn't won much support either, the Riven City are quite passive and only help in case "the power armour dude get mad".

If anything, Lyon's chapter isn't in a position stronger than 1st chapter at all.