I scoff at your pre-determined classes, OP. Never used one, don't need it. I create a character, not a set of attributes.

No it's not. It presenting an obvious case of realistic observation. You throw a ball up and it comes down.

Thank you and I will.

I wonder if he realizes that mages can't enchant in Dragon Age.

You completely lost me.. I dont think you understood my point...I never said Alchemy was a magical ability..Im also using real life as reference, and not staying strictly in the guidlines of Skyrim... Alchemy has always been used by medicine men, or those practicing dark arts..Im stating that in Skyrim, a "Pure Warrior", theif, mage, nightblade, paladin, witch, Necromancer, etc WOULD use Alchemy...Theyd be stupid not too.. How could a so-called pre warrior go a 2nd bout after having just decapitated a Draugr Deathlord, and be expected to complete the rest of a deadly, trap riddled, undead wandering, spider crawling, skeever ankle buiting, dungeon and not stop to make himself some sort of healing wrap, potion, salve, or even a numbing agent.. He would most certainly have to know these BASIC skills, if he/she would ever attempt to brave the wilderness alone.. Else he'd be the lone skeleton in some back corner of a troll cave, clutching a note that reads, "DAMN! Wish i learned how to close this gaping would on my arm".. Since any small wound would spawn infection, become gangrenous, and kill him within days...

Enchanting, however, is absolutely a magic based skill.. One statement i read here in this forum, in defense of it even said "enchanting with a table still requires 0 magic ability. All you have to do is know the effect, not even actually be able to cast it in any sense other then understanding, but not actual ability."... The key word there being "know the effect".. A mage is a strudent of magic, and being able to use a spell comes from study, practice, and "knowing the spell"...Your enchanting a solid, metal object, with magic..Its pretty self explanatory!

Realistic observation would tell you a knight is still a warrior even though he uses illusion.

Fair enough, as long as one can't call a character a pure warrior if he uses light armor, alchemy, speechcraft, etc. A pure warrior only has 6 skills to develop.

Good response, I'd say. I can't help but to love the class-less system compared to that of the previous games. Not perfect, but not too bad.

@Colonel: Inbox

That was mine, but what I was saying was it didn't take a mage to know it. In other words I was showing them by their definition if alchemy is not a magic skill, neither is enchanting. Many games including this series once before said alchemy was a magic skill. And if a warrior can be an alchemist, why can't a warrior be an enchanter when you don't have to be skilled at all in magic? A mage is a student of all sorts of magic schools and skills, not one.

Enchanting is not magic, but alchemy is? Your losing me more, and mroe with each statement..

And what about Nord, do you know that I, or anyone else here, does not?

I just dont see how emblasing a sword permenantly with fire, could be construed as anything but magic.. How can you make an inanimate object steal ones soul, or send a daedra back to oblivion, anything but magic?

A Knight, btw, is nothing mroe than a title.. Like Thane, or Jarl... Liek a Purple Heart, one is awarded, or granted knightship by proving ones prowess in combat, or somehting similar deserving of such a title...

"Battle Maiden" in this sense is basically a Medic who will fight if need be but is really there to heal fallen comrades.

I never said anything about fearing magic like many of the ignorant Nords do nowadays, only that a pure/proud warrior wouldn't use it, especially in battle...just like a pure/proud mage would see the crude weapons of war as something beneath him.

That's a difference of opinion so no sense arguing that but fact is Alchemy is not magic, it's not a magical skill in the Ohgma Infinium which should say it all as Hermaeus Mora is the Prince of Knowledge....the grey area is that this is a fantasy world so the ingredients seem "magical" yet actually they're physical items you can collect and mix in a chemistry set. Nothing spiritual about chopping the toe off a giant and cooking it up with some flowers or what have you...when you trap the giants soul you're using magic and then it takes a magic table to store his soul in an item to power it up with a magical effect.

In Skyrim, it's as easy to "know the effect" for alchemy as it is for enchanting. Also, the skill of alchemy is understanding the magical properties of ingredients and combining/mixing them to create magical potions and poisons.

Not in the text of the discussion of being a pure warrior. What's being called a Night is just a subclass label of a Spellsword.

Nope. That is off the marks as well. It takes no magical ability to develop any of those skills.

I think you missed the parenthesis....

I know you're not arguing with gameplay mechanics contradicted by previous games and likely will again. To be honest, it probably got dropped as a magic skill because they needed even numbers for each category...

That it doesn't fit into the magic skill tree is irrelevant. Using alchemy (or any other skill not associated with the 6 "warrior" skills) negates a character from being a "pure" warrior, even though he may still be a warrior (according to this thread). It doesn't just involve magic skills.

Not even close. Alchemy is recognizing the chemical properties of an ingredient. Like knowing the potassium in a banana is good for controlling high blood pressure.

... or that bread mold contains penicillin.

So, what?

Are you saying that ONLY MAGIC SKILLS negate a warrior from being a "pure" warrior?

ha na I facepalmed because you somehow think I'm talking about proud warriors fearing magic as opposed to detesting it...the facepalm also applies to how you believe Alchemy is magic yet Enchanting isn't. As I've said this is single player so feel free to color outside the lines crazy style but don't try to argue logic and say chemistry is magic because we're using fantasy world ingredients.

That's exactly it, and its silly.

If this weren't the fantasy world of TES, I would agree with you. However, the ingredients have magical effects and it is treated as such by the game.

No, I was showing that your logic didn't make sense. I said if enchanting is magic so is alchemy, and it is. Also, I said it doesn't take magical skill to be able to do it, not that it didn't involve magic. And also, you said I was in denial because my warrior SC was using the same milk drinking magic elves did, but I pointed out SCs aren't afraid of magic, so your taunt was silly.

Missed point after point after point.

Ingrediants are picked from the physical world by anyone, and experimenting to learn its effect.. Its a physical potion you drink, and gain some effect.. Like Advil..

Enchanting, is based purely on magical powers.. You need to understand magic, to use the spell.. How can you just "know" how to place fire onto a sword, steal a soul, banish Daedra, etc. and not call that magic? You cannot just pick Fire emblazoning Daisy's growing on the throat of the world, and experiment with it..

Alchemy is mixing flowers, enchanting is folding magic into steel.. I dont understand how else to say this..

Doesn't the in-game description of Alchemy state: An alchemist can create magical potions and deadly poisons.

The Nords use magic, and even the dumb guards will say they respect the restoration class. The whole "Nords hate magic" thing is way overdone. There have always been spellswords and mages among the traditional Nords and there still are. Belrand, for example, is meant to be an oldy Nord and he casts basic spells. I won't debate about whether he's a warrior or not, because I think the arbitrary definitions are silly.

Everyone on Nirn is capable of spellcasting. It's explained in the game novels as "the spark within" and the character Colin, who is not a mage, casts a spell in the midst of battle under extreme duress. It's not a well controlled spell and he's not even sure how he did it, but there you go, anyone is capable of using magic.

Beyond that, it's a single player game so do whatever you want and call your character whatever you want to call them.

I have to go with those saying alchemy is a magical skill. The potion effects in Elder Scrolls are far too powerful to be merely naturalistic properties from home brews. In past games, alchemy was the province of mages. You are manipulating the magickal properties and not just the natural.

Here, read http://www.imperial-library.info/content/fundaments-alchemy.

You just said it yourself.. It "involves magic".. So, if you can do it yourself, without any outside help.. You are USING MAGICAL ABILITY!