Exactly. And the reason is as simple as the base of the argument. Those are all mechanical skills the can be developed outside of any arcane knowledge, beliefs, skill developments or interactions.

Not as silly as trying to convince yourself that Enchanting is not magic related.

Except that is NOT how it is treated in the world of TES.

Saying Alchemy is JUST mixing potions is like saying a master chef SIMPLY mixes ingredients and that any layman could do it.

OR

If alchemy IS just as simple as mixing ingredients, then Enchanting IS just as simple as placing your items on the dais. You do not need to understand anything. You do not cast any "spells" on the item.

You people are thick as all hell. Alchemy too involves magic. So you must think that a warrior that uses alchemy isn't a warrior, right?

He's going to say he's not a warrior anymore because he casted a spell, fair warning.

Your takign it too literally..And probably deliberately so...

Flowers, and such ingredients, are creating CHEMICAL based potions (physical things, you can hold) that have magical effects...Your not casting magic..Your not using the knowledge of magic to make poitions,.. Your using flowers, ashes, toes, etc..How are you this thick>?

I didn't SAY THAT. I said it doesn't take magical ability from you. A complete meathead warrior can enchant as well as any mage.

Actually, that is exactly what a master chef is and anyone can do it.

By this logic, a character that utilizes ONLY stealth, alchemy, speechcraft, and pickpocket can be considered a "pure" warrior.

That is ridiculous.

This statement is preposterous.

placing WHAT items , exactly? what items are you placing on the dial with enchanting?

Cooking, your placing wehat, meat etc..

Alchemy your placing flowers, ashes, toes, etc..

Enchanting your placing what.. Fire? The ability to caapture a soulsd? The ability to banish a soul?

And the "Chef" you refer too, wasnt born a chef.. He experimented with those physical ingredients, he could loot from any barrel in skyrim, by at any stall in Solitude, etc..Same with the Alchemist.. How did the enchanter just loot the ability to place fire into steel permanently?

ha thank you, this is the simple sense I see in both arts yet some seem to be blind to...I really don't understand how you can't see that Alchemy in Skyrim is basically fantasy world chemistry. In real life chemists can create all sorts of "potions" that have "magical" effects on you but they're not mages. Take drugs like LSD for example, they will alter your reality so if you didn't know what it was then you would think someone has magically changed your world.

gah!

I'm not 1 of those "Nords hate magic" people so please stop throwing me in the bin with them...I'm well aware it's been a part of their culture since the beginning and there's a Nord mage in the College. What I'm saying is that a pure/proud warrior of any race should not be using magic as such a warrior would likely detest it or in the Nord sense see it as a milk drinker thing to rely on healing spells in battle. Take the honorable Nord warrior Kodlak, clearly he didn't rely on healing spells or his beastly abilities to aid him but rather stood his ground like a true warrior Nord with only his steel Warhammer.

But you did and it does. It doesn't need to use Magicka to be recognized as a clear-cut implementation of magical skills. You can get Magicka cost to zero and still cast spells. Does that mean you are no longer a magic user because your are no longer using Magicka?

Then he's not a pure warrior anymore.

I'm thick because I'm going by the in-game description of the skill? There are even characters in the game that comment on the magical properties of the ingredients used in alchemy.

You're also not casting magic when enchanting, either.

Magic cost to zero means you not a mage.. I guess my mage is now a " " class.. Glad someone else understand where im coming from.. lol.. well put!

Your going by the description in game, and waving any, and all common sense in the process.. Your supposed to use both!

Theres also a chef show on the air RIGHT NOW where 6,7,8,-12 yr olds are creating dishes that are flooring Gordan Ramsey, the Fat guyy, and the rude Italian guy.. You may have heard of it...

Im still wondering what ingrediants you place on the dial, like you do with Alch, or Cooking...

Nope, that would be something rather different, because one sees a warrior as utilizing some sort of weapon.

You need to get out more. There are thousands of Master Chefs that are all over the media boasting how simple creating five star dishes is and they show you how it's done. The same principle applies.

Let's tone down the personal insults, eh?

You ARE manipulating magical properties in the ingredients to make potions. The praxis of alchemy was laid down by Galerion like all the other magic skills. http://www.imperial-library.info/content/fundaments-alchemy which I linked to up above describes using the magical properties of the ingredients:

"Often overlooked by aspiring mages, Alchemy is a time-honored, rewarding discipline that can change the lives of those who master it... Many items in our world, mostly organic in nature, can be broken down into more fundamental essences with magickal properties." Alchemy is the process of taking natural matter and purifying its magical essence. It requires magical skill (not necessarily spellcasting) to do this.

From http://www.imperial-library.info/content/feyfolken-i:

"Magic as we know it today comes from Vanus Galerion. He restructured the schools to be understandable by the masses. He invented the tools of alchemy and enchanting so everyone could concoct whatever they wanted, whatever their skills and purse would allow them to, without fears of magical backfire."

So, if you care about such things, your warrior can't use alchemy and stay "pure." Whatever in Oblivion that means.

You certainly aren't "casting spells" at the item, and disenchanting an item certainly doesn't teach you the spell.

There is so much more to "cooking" than mixing ingredients.

I did not, and No, that is completely missing the point and is also silly. That is manipulating magicka's cost to zero. Enchanting requires no such thing, no training as a mage, nothing. It involves magic, but it requires no magic ability. If a warrior can use alchemy, a magic skill, then a warrior can enchant.

@second comment

Thats what i was saying at 1st, but were apparently ONLY sticking to how TES V states how it works inthis particular argument..

And ill speak how i wish, within the ToA...TY

Then WHAT are you placing on the dial, to allow a sword to capture a soul, banish a soul, or cause someone to burst aflame? Idf you can answer that, ill give up, and wave my white flag..

The soul gem you had? The soul; gem you capturted a soul with? How do you know how to work with souls, work with the ability to adde flame to sword, without knowing/using magcal ability?

Disenchanting is learning the spell, to place the spell on the sword...

Okay, add archery into the mix. Voila! "Pure" warrior!

And I get out plenty. I even graduated from culinary school. It takes knowledge, talent, skill, and yes,, MASTERY to become a master chef. It takes years of practice and there are entire colleges devoted to the craft. Simply mixing ingredients, feh. That is ridiculous.

This pretty much says it allows anyone to perform these skills, right here. Good find.

Its likely a mental connection, but it doesn't say. No casting is ever mentioned and in Skyrim all you do is "learn" an ability by breaking the weapon, but you can't cast it. Only enchant it.

Fine, but I don't see it this way. A smart warrior would use whatever tools are available to him. It has nothing to do with honor. The problem is that it requires a lot of time to learn a skill, unlike in the game, and being jack of all trades master of none isn't a good idea.

Aren't you a charmer. Can it be that people's assumptions about the Warrior-Mage-Thief scheme seen in the game are wrong? Seems to me the idea that if it's not covered in the mage category, it's not magical, is something completely arbitrary people here are making up for whatever reason of their own.

Exactly, my warriors don't touch either table as imo it's not something a warrior should be messing with...think about a seasoned soldier in real life going to a chemistry lab to start tinkering around with different ingredients trying find a mixture to give him more stamina in combat; totally ridiculous imo when he can simply buy a pre-made 5 hour energy potion, created by those who know what they're doing.

(my warriors don't use potions either but there's nothing against a warrior drinking them in lore or game)

As for understanding "pure", simply replace it with "proud" and it's much easier to relate to. A proud warrior would see magic as something milk drinkers need and a proud mage would see physical weapons of war as tools of the savages that's beneath him.

1. Our hands, apparently.

2. Read it in a book?

3. Disenchanting is learning a magical property or effect.