Exactly. See, you do understand.

However, no one said anything about using potions. Just using created potions, which suggests the use of Alchemy. Of which I can see one using without the inclination of being any type of hybrid.

Not true. There are still classes. Just not presets. It's no different than creating a custom class. Except you work for those initial traits in lieu of the game just giving them to you.

True, they removed "classes" from previous games (probably in an attempt to appeal to more people) but the class system is still very much a part of the world in ways...it's like an unofficial guideline for the people who are more into the "roleplaying" aspect of the RPG.

Nope. Still not getting it. Please, tell me more.

In skyrim, what would you call someone who uses only light armor and a 2-handed sword to fight? 'Cause light armor sure isn't a warrior skill according to the game's "classes"

Me, I'd call that person a warrior.

If, in order to be considered a warrior, you have to be pure as the driven snow, then there is no such thing in Skyrim, unless you plan on never selling anything.

Edit: I don't know what is happening with my posts. These last two were supposed to be one post...

The difference in that comparison makes all the difference, maybe Way off on that comparison.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/warrior

Obviously we don't have magic in real life, so the series essentially judges what's a warrior. Kematu's the leader of the Redguard Alik'r warriors. He used paralyze. Granted, warriors to me wouldn't, but enchanting as a crafting skill is a okay.

Sure thing. I'm glad to help. I'll put it into a simple perspective... pure Warriors don't use magic.

As long as he didn't use magic? I would as well.

Nope.. that's off the mark as we are only looking at opposing magic skills.

"Pure" warriors, according to the game's skill set, wouldn't use light armor or any speech-craft, either.

So, Alchemy is fine, sneak is fine, pickpocket and lockpicking are fine when it comes to a (pure) warrior, just as long as you don't use that healing spell that everyone gets at the beginning of the game?

I wouldn't consider those classes, more roles or archetypes. If thats a class even "classless" RPGs had classes.

To me its not a class unless its rigid and limiting like D&D classes in earlier editions before they started adding in cross-classing, subclasses, prestiege classes etc.

You can't take those things for granted. Because of the way they implemented those stones to cover three archetypes. They split them up with what they had.

Yep... The logic of the reasoning is that all of those things are "physical mechanics" and can easily be understood to be adaptable by anyone not associated with the arcane.

That stupid healing spell is just another way to casualize the game. I don't agree with that at all and I'm not alone in thinking that either. Nonetheless, one can simply choose to not use it as it would clearly disrupt the definitive of being a pure warrior.

Since warrior that uses enchantments is such a popular build maybe it needs to be recognised as a class, rather than just telling people they're wrong. Mystic warrior perhaps? I'm inclined to accept my love for enchantments makes me not a pure warrior, I see my characters as superstitious warriors.

I guess it doesn't help that every character starts with at least flames and healing as standard, everyone is a mage even if you don't want to play as one or RP otherwise, unless you've modded that out, it's actually impossible to be a pure anything, you will always be a hybrid as you will always have those skills available whether you use them or not. I always chuckle whenever I come across a flames or healing spellbook, um hello, what's the point?, everyone can do that anyway.

My go-to first character with RPGs is typically a soldier/warrior who never uses magic, enchanting, brewing potions, etc. himself. However he sees nothing wrong with swigging a potion looted from a corpse or spending his hard-looted septims on a fancy new enchanted mace from Warmaiden's, or even fumbling around with an atronach scroll now and again.

"Left" from viewpoint? If you look to High Rock, "left" will take you to Cyrodiil. Look to Alinor or Hammerfell, and "left" leads to Argonia.

By the way CKB, dig the new avatar.

Edit: I assume you mean Hammerfell, but considering this is the Skyrim forum, the first province to come to mind when I see "province to the left" would be High Rock, which doesn't seem to be anti-magic at all.

I agree that all armor technically belongs to a warrior. The same goes for archery.
Classes like ranger and barbarian I've always understood to be cross builds as well rather than pure warriors or pure rogues as they incorporate both aspects of warrior (armor, one handed & archery) with aspects of a rogue (stealth, climbing & alchemy).

Nords used to be more users of heavy armor and it was the Imperials that steered more towards light armor (Morrowind stats) which kinda made better sense from a lore perspective as a Nords are more inclined to be raised as warrior smiths with little respect for magic while the Imperials are more into teaching and learning in the arts of magic as a way of supporting their warrior skills.

I'm beginning to think you're right.

All true Skyrim warriors are Naked and duel wield shivs in combat. Pickaxes are overpowered.

I think the term for that is a BATTLEmage.

When I think of a battlemage, I imagine someone actually skilled in magic.

Basic healing spells hardly are enough for a warrior to qualify as such.

As for enchanting... you can't survive against an Ancient Dragon without a necklace or ring enchanted with Resist Fire. You'll get killed quickly, regardless of your armor rating.

This is all pretty pointless. Think about restoration for a minute. Sure it's magic, but a "pure" mage character(one who uses spells as primary damage dealing/crowd control) is not going to need it. It's actually an ability that works better with "warriors", or characters that use melee attacks. Enchanting seems like a magic ability, but in this game it isn't really. You drop stuff into a table to learn the enchant, then duplicate it. It's as much just "using the machinery" as smithing. Would have been pretty simple if you could just pay someone to enchant your gear, but noooooooo.....had to do away with that

And if you wanted to heal your minions or drive off the undead, what would you do?

Agreed.

Really, imo, having classes added a sort of structure to the game so these types of discussions weren't necessary. Everyone keeps referring back to the classes in TES IV Oblivion to define characters. To me, classes are a sort of gamer's shorthand, a convenient way of communicating or defining ones character. Although I see the advantages of the freedom allowed in Skyrim, it is sad that we are losing some of the framework that defined RPGs. Again, just my opinion.

This is the first time I've done this:

TLDR, but in honesty I did read the first page. Cuz i already know what's in pages 2 through 4.

My two septims:

Single player game. Do your thing. Every player starts with a basic healing spell. It is then assumed in the land, that there is some form of basic restoration magic accessible to the entire population. Perhaps only the beggars do not know this. People who live in the Warrens and various other places throughout the land.

With that basic restoration knowledge, I think it's reasonable to assume that there would be quite a few intrepid souls who wish to study more magic. I can't imagine branching off, at least for a warrior with a basic healing spell, into destruction or illusion for example. I can see quaffing ready-made potions, but I can't see the character making their own. But then again, I can, if you're a barbarian, experienced in the flora of your world, I would expect you to be able to brew up poisons and potions, perhaps not a full alchemist, but something....

Interpretation.

Unfortunately the game, Skyrim, in its vision, limits your choices, forcing one type of character, to do other types of things:

Open spells. Have to level lockpick, instead of just using a spell, like a mage would have probably figgered out how to make this spell by now. Oh yeah.

Cannot pay someone else to fix your gear for you.

Cannot pay someone else to recharge your magical weapons. Instead, through the course of your hopefully successful and long life, your warrior becomes a master enchanter. Through no effort and desire except just trying to keep your gear tip-top, as any warrior would so desire.

It's the game limitations that create this situation.

That's when you step into the battlemage class.

So if a mage heals his dremora lord, he's a battlemage?

Depends on whether there's a mace in the other hand.