http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_bomb

Does anyone think that the Capital Wasteland was hit by Neutron bombs as opposed to much in the way of traditional atomic weaponry? Neutron Bombs, for those who don't want to research them, are basically a type of nuclear warhead that went out of style due to the fact that it functions basically as a "radiation killer" as opposed to a "explosion killer."

The arguments against them is that they seemed more designed to kill civilian populations than regular nuclear bombs (a bit of a poor argument but I understand people who are horrified by the idea of "Super-Dirty" bombs).

I think this would go a long way to explaining why the Capital Wasteland is still so highly radioactive and yet primarily still intact. All of the populous of DC would have been killed nearly instantly but the structures would have remained largely intact.

What do people think?

yeah it does make sense.

It would explain why the buildings still stand. Would not explain why there is still radiation everywhere.

No mention of it. Also why only use them on the Capital? Why would you want to save the city if you know that you are going to be wiped out and never be able to occupy DC?

Well, obviously there's no attempt to do any clean up for the radioactivity.

But you're right, there's no mention of the types of nuclear warheads in the D.C. area. One thing to note, the Chinese apparently attempted to physically INVADE Washington D.C. before they started dropping atomic warheads. There were, after all, a group of of Chinese Ghoul survivors in the Capital Wasteland not to mention the descendant of one in Tenpenny Towers.

Not to mention a few hundred Chinese Assault Rifles being available in-game.

It's possible that Washington D.C. was actually hit by Neutron bombs tossed by the USA (especially given the Enclave was in charge) as opposed to the Chinese in hopes of preventing them from taking the Capital.

Hell, bizarrely, the fact that Adam's Air Force Base said that its monorail was used to evacuate plus the fact that ONLY the White House was destroyed indicates it's quite possible that the bomb was hidden UNDERNEATH the White House and used as a sort of "self-destruct" device to prevent the capital from falling into enemy hands.

(Certainly, the Enclave would want Washington D.C. to be eventually recoverable if and when they returned from Outer Space)

Again, this is all fan speculation built on stuff I'm gathering from the game. Obviously, the only person who could say for sure would be Bethesda.

It is explained that the Chinese in Fallout 3 were just spies and saboteurs. There was no invasion of DC. The amout of weapons is just because of spawning.

America had invaded China. American forces had made it to http://www.project610.com/files/Yangtze.jpg in the heart of China.

If the Bomb was under the White House the crater would look very different.

Enclave were not in DC not even at the time of the Great War, they went to an Oil Rig of the coast of California before the Great War. The American Government did not know about the Enclave so I doubt China did. Enclave were not intrested in DC till after their HQ in California was nuked in Fallout 2. Fallout 3 also explains there were no Enclave in DC till after Fallout 2.

1. I'm not sure about that but I'll take your word for that.

2. It was just a theory.

3. The Enclave was the United States government by that point, I'm just using it as a form of shorthand. We still don't know who fled to Adam's Air Force Base through the subway.

4. As for the Enclave not being in Washington D.C. after it's a radioactive Wasteland, that's obvious.

5. It's not unheard of for two nations to invade each other's countries simultaneously. It happened during the Second Punic War.

Still, good rebuttal and I doubt the USA was the one to nuke Washington D.C.

But yes, the Chinese could also choose to use neutron bombs as opposed to regular atomic ones for any number of reasons.

Quite possibly including they thought they were more efficient.

The 3rd point you made, I have given thought to before. Lore tells us that the president went to the Oil Rig before the great war. So who was left to use the escape tunnel in Fallout 3? Vice president and other members of the government or just the staff of the White House? Isn't there also a couple of skeletons next to a Desk in the white House ruins? To me it looks like the Devs were trying to say the President died at during the Great War.

I agree it is possible that neutron bombs took out DC. No logical reason to use them but like you said maybe they thought it would be more efficient. Still the point of a neutron bomb is to kill the people leaving the wealth intact so you can occupy it. So not destroying the city would leave your enemy a city in which to rebuild and regroup.

I suppose it depends on the Chinese Communist's goals.

Was it the annihilation of America for all eternity or just crippling them?

Did they envision rebuilding in war-torn America?

Or were these special neutron bombs whose radiation didn't really dissipate?

In which case, it's just weirdly sadistic.

China was being invaded by America. I doubt their goal would be to up-root any survivers and move all the way to DC to rebuild. If anything they would have used Neutron bombs on cities on the West Coast like LA and San Fransisco if they wanted to up-root. We have seen those cities and they are nuked to the ground.

When the time came I think it was a simple case of MAD (Mutual assured destruction) "I am going down, so I taking you all to hell with me!" as Fallout 3's intro would put it "simple psychotic rage."

I'm not so sure about that, especially if they're still Maoists like the Americans are still McCarthyists.

Mao had some pretty crazy ambitions.

I would say the whole world was stuck in the mindset of the 1950s right up till 2077.

Mao had some crazy ambitions I agree. He is the reason China has a huge population. He figure if their was a nuclear war America and the USSA would only have a few hundred thousand survivors, while China would have millions.

China would not just be getting nukes from America. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIMH50X0F-4

Not necessarily, those skeletons could have been anyone really. It doesn't mean that it was the President and staff or that the desk was supposed to be the Resolute desk.

As to who escaped via the tunnel to Adams Airforce Base, some of the evacuees were likely members of Congress, since once of the skeletons carries a "Senate ID" card.

I think Bethesda had a totally unrealistc nuked DC, because if everything was destroyed like it should be they would not be able to use what I hear is their #1 attribute................ open world games.

The epicness of a little destroyed DC was great. It would not have been the same if there were just miles and miles of nothing. They did it so players could really enjoy the game.

Sure I got the game and said to myself " none of this would be here without a starwars system in place. So I just pretended that DC had a star wars system in place so no huge ICBMs hit DC. Only enemy bombers and small cruise missles made it. Meaning less over all damage.

The radiation I have no Idea how long it will last, there were cracks in the earth seeping radiation. I wasn t sure where the radiation was coming from. The earth was broke, and radiation may come out is what I told myself pretty much..

Plus the with epicness of the game I was able to overlook that easier.

Are you talking about Ronald Regan's famous "Star Wars" defences system?

Thats an interesting point actually, I wonder if, in the alternate timeline, that project came to fruition.

Well, we know they had Satellite based nuclear missiles.

They're in Van Buren *AND* in the Capital Wasteland (it's the point of Broken Steel after all).

However, there's no point to them for shooting down missles because it's been established that ICBMs don't exist.

Nope, the bombs were just sci-fi nukes instead of real nukes.

If you look at the world map for the http://images.wikia.com/fallout/images/f/f5/Fo1_Boneyard_Layout.png in Fallout 1, you'll see it's in a pretty similar state. Lots of tall, decayed buildings, no plant life and some lingering radiation.

I pretty sure that ICBMS were in use in the Fallout Universe, one quote that comes to mind right now is when Richardson says "And then those damn Reds launched". In Fallout 3, at Fort Constantine you can find launch codes for an ICBM.

Apprently though, the old fashion way of delivering the nuclear device via plane was the prevalent method however.

I would also put the quote from the Fallout 2 intro "Spears of Nuclear fire rained down from the sky." ICBMs exist in Fallout. It would be the only way for the war to last two hours. If the entire thing was done with planes it would have lasted longer and really can't be done.

Fallout has ICBMs, it has subs capable of launching nuclear weapons and there are space based weapons. To say ICBM does not exist in Fallout is just crazy.

There is also the warhead in Fallout Tactics. Fallout 3 went crazy with the 1950s theme and had 1950s nuclear bombs all over the place. ICBMs are apart of the Fallout Universe.

The idea of the of an ICBM was first envisioned during WW2 and America was actively trying to make them during the 1950s The first ICBM was in 1958!

We are still working on missle defense now, but we are running out of money. I ve seen tests on future weapons where they shoot a missle at a fake ICBM, the little missle goes way faster and tagrets a place that will basically defuse the enemy war head.

Most countries have a three phase nuclear attack, ICBMs, bombers with nuclear cruise missles and bombs, and submarine and ship launched nuclear cruise missles. They would still destroy DC more, but if the airforce intercepted a lot of the bombers its possible to sustain minimal damage.

There are no signs of these things in DC, but I just pretended thats how it went down.

So is this now a topic about DC having a system like the lucky 38 has?

One American nuclear attack sub is enough to destroy every major city in America. No system could stop an all out "every nuke must fly" nuclear war. America's system they may or may not be working on now is just to stop one or two missles from a country like North Korea and really how big of a threat is that? Anyways can't get into that debate.

Fort Constaine had an ICBM minuteman Xl I believe. Code name bag man. Most of the military bases in fo3 were ICBM silos.

The Constantine launch code sheet says ICBM right on it.

I think we call our ICBMs minuteman in real life. Don t quote me on that. It is very rare that they let cameras into U.S. missle silos and give info about them.

I think you are right. There are also a number of silos in Fallout 3. :foodndrink:

Edit: You are right http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fort_Constantine "Fort Constantine is a rather large outpost and ICBM launch facility."

If they can build Rockets to go to the moon they can make ICMB.

I spent 40 hrs at least trying to get that thing up. I d tun to the satcom array towers, I d do things in different orders, but to no avail.

The opening was right on the mountain next to constantine. You could stand on it.

The bases Talon comp was at was a silo too. That one got launched though during the war.

The base with the radiers........Empty ICBM silo .

The winding stair cases that were there to maintain and preserve tne missle. They are huge.........

Fair point, I stand corrected on the ICBMs.

I like my neutron bomb theory but we are dealing in a world where physics are different.

I'm fairly sure, for example, Japan doesn't have any Feral ghoul problems.

I think the reason that only the White House is a crater is that it was hit by a nuclear bunker buster, which really exists, or some other type of specially made weapon.

The Chinese may have thought the President might have had a bunker of some sort under the White House, or at the very least, it's obviously of critical importance as far as command and control, so they wanted it really really blown up.