Simple.

How do you guys feel about the class and leveling system in Skyrim? What do you think should happen for the next game ?

i hate it and wish they would go back to the old way.

I enjoy it. I've played fallout 3/NV and a little oblivion and this is my favorite leveling class setup.

I just wish they'd release an update with a fix to the glitch where you get stuck in slow motion while blocking if you have the perk that slows down time during enemies power attacks....

Love it. The perks themselves and some of the trees need some work but for the first time with a new style of lvling, its great.

As long as you don't exploit it has a nice flow IMO...starts off fast and you grab a few perks and then it slows down considerably.

Edit: also if you switch systems again for the next ES/FO you're going to have some of the same probelms you have now so i hope they learn and build on it.

It's oversimplified and too reliant on perks (which could've been implemented a lot better also).

Without attributes, i'm basically just alternating between health and stamina every time I level up - which really doesn't say much about who my character is at all. Skills don't really seem to define my character much either. It feels like i'm only increasing them to reach certain milestones that unlock the next perk.

While I do like it, I might not like it later.

I've "only" played for about 50 hours so far and the difficulty is still spot on. But if it does turn out Oblivion-ish I would want to be able to "freeze" my level, in Skyrim you will ultimately level automatically as it takes ages for every single skill that you use to max out.
That being said I do wish they'd have stuck to their attributes system though (Strength, Agility, etc.), it's the only thing I really do miss. The minor/major skills not so much.

Like it. I'm not forced anymore to pay attention to exactly what skills I'm leveling to get a +5 bonus. So now I can just enjoy the game without having to worry to raise a skill I don't want to raise.

Exactly. It leaves me out of many of the technical aspects of the game and just lets me play and increase whatever skills I use at a given time.

I feel like the perk system severely limits the potential for unique characters.

I feel like the perks were a generally good idea, but they should have stuck with the old system.

It would be a good system, if they just removed the perks, or at least, completely reworked them so that they weren't so horribly unbalancing.

I think it's a great idea, and provides a very good groundwork. The implementation wasn't perfect , but it's the first time with a new system.

I'd recommend more attributes than the 3, but raising them in the same manner. Predetermined points per level, that way it doesn't affect how you play to power level.

There should be more perks to create more diversity and to add to the replayability.

And off topic, the speech should be handled like it was in Fallout New Vegas. Speech was a viable skill in that game, but seems a bit pointless in the grand scheme of things in this one. When do our slick talking characters get to use their skills in any game changing ways? Telling the bandit where he can stick it isn't that big overall.

I'll reiterate my point from an earlier thread:

"Some perk could unlock based on skill and while most of the rest would have to be bougth with perk point. Maybe have some perk needing specific training session, quest, ect.
Not all eggs in the same place."

Furthermore, Things like spells costing less or weapon/spells damaging more should have never been perk to begin with, It's what the skill level is there for.
I expected perk to be things like changing power attack to a special attack, give aoe to a power attack, special combos, spell chaining, spell fusion (double casting fire atronach=1 HUGE atronach.), etc.

By reading the comments and the perk list, I find the system very underwhelming and limiting. We're down to 4 to 5 playstyle now, Oblivion feels more complex and rewarding.

I agree with what you have said, I like the new system better than the old, but think they could have implemented the old Strength, etc. stats without the "oh I got to go train to get a +5 bonus" thing that we had to do. Also, I do not like the fact that speech levels up just from selling stuff to merchants. I mean, wtf on that one. I am not haggling prices, or persuading them to give me a better price, the game just says "Hey, you sold some stuff, and now your speech has increased". I don't like this one bit as it is taking away from my characters true skills/leveling and to some degree, my RPing experience since I am NOT trying to level up my speech skill.

Does anyone think that with more skills and Actual Attributes back this system would be better?

if they got rid of the perks and put major/minor skills back in yes.

I'm not so mad about the skills as I am about the disappearing spell types. Mysticism can go, but I want my feather spell back!

Attributes, I can actually agree with seeing go to an extent. Luck didn't really do anything, and Personality only made a difference when you were using it to break the game. Intelligence and Willpower really WERE just ways to get more magicka, and Endurance was the same for health. The only thing really missing is speed...

It's kind of annoying, though, that without that feather spell, the only way my mage can carry anything is to waste a level on stamina. Shouldn't that be tied to health, instead?

Anyway, what they need to do is, if the game is going to level up with you, to give you skills that are all equally capable of helping you accomplish your goals. That means that if speech is a skill, it needs to be possible to simply bribe, intimidate, befriend, or otherwise talk you way through at least 1/4th of the fights in the game at max ranks, or that is a waste of a skill. Merging skills together because they are too weak compared to other skills when all skills equally level you up just makes sense.

The REAL problem, however, are those broken perks. Everything about them are wrong. It completely undermines the entire "get better through use" mechanic in the game by making you get better by just assigning character points at level up, as if it were some other kind of RPG. Having a choice between one perk or another is fine, so long as that doesn't mean I can hit rank 100 without having any perks in one skill, and every perk in another skill I hardly use except to meet the qualifications of a perk.

the perk system is a total joke. all they did was remove skill benchmark bonuses and make you spend points for those bonuses instead of gaining them when you raise that skill to a certain level.

It's garbage. I want the Morrowind system back.

I can live with the current system but......... seems like a step backwards to me.

Considering this new system was supposedly designed to give you more freedom it's ironic that I feel more constricted in what I can do than ever before.

I am really enjoying Skyrim but ^^^This^^^


I think by freedom they meant freedom to not really have to think.

Something about it makes feel like the only viable play styles are the three basic archetypes.

What Sheogorath and Hackworthy said, basically.

Also, am I the only one who just took what I got when I leveled in the old system? I did not try to make sure I got +5 in a certain attribute, I just used everything as I would naturally and placed my points accordingly. This argument sounds more like people being compelled to get as powerful as possible as fast as possible than an actual issue with the system.

The perk system, for whatever reason, works for me. Instead of the game telling me what advantages I got for getting better with weapons or magic, I can path in according to my needs, sore you can grind potion making and use that perk to get shieldbashing upgrades but you still need the skill level to unlock the perk.
I like oblivion and morrowind's systems but this one isn't bad either.



I'm a Spellsword, blending magic with swordsmanship works great, and it isn't one of the main three styles is it? there's no spellsword stone anywhere.

I love it. Finally there is a point to roleplay, because you can't do EVERYTHING equally effectively. The perk system means choosing to specialize, and I enjoy that.

I've decided my first character will do the Companions, Legion and college of magic as a spellsword, then a second character can do the Dark Brotherhood, Thieve's Guild and Stormcloaks as an assassin. There was never a point to separate stuff before because one character could do everything equally well. Now there IS a reason to specialize, and I love it! It's more of a roleplaying game.