It doesn't have to be, but in Oblivion it was. For me at least, the compass would be in the way even if there were good directions because I would keep noticing it. That's why people want it removable.

A lot of people think they like open-world games, when really they just like sandbox games. They just like the freedom to mess around and do what they want, without really caring about things such as exploration, the believability of the world, immersion, etc. As long as it looks nice and they can play around in it, that's really all that matters to them.

Then you have all the people who will buy a TES game just because they like fantasy; because they enjoy more linear action-RPGs and think TES will be fairly similar; or purely because it's such a well known and popular game that they just want to give it a try.

Thank you, it's so refreshing to finally have a civil discussion with someone that doesn't involve both parties just sticking to their own opinions without listening to the other side (I probably worded that pretty bad right now but it's 1 AM here :turned:).

And I also agree that old and abandoned locations (especially if they are far from any settlements) should be much harder to find. One possibility would be to give their markers much shorter radiuses, so they'd only show up if you were already very close to them and would realistically spot them. Unfortunately I don't think this is how it's implemented in vanilla Skyrim, but then again there are so many other things that 'would be cool to happen but won't', so we'll have to accept the compromises just as we do with things in real life.



Then use a mod that removes it. Honestly, if everything was optionable or togglable like people wanted, we'd end up with a HUGE options menu. Someone actually made a parody picture of it with like 80+ various options, but I can't find it right now. :sadvaultboy:

You can turn off quest markers, but not as a setting. By this, I mean that there won't be a setting in the options to disable quest markers, but instead, you can go to your journal, and just turn off your current quest marker

In Oblivion, it just more or less pointed you where to go. In FO3, it pointed you in the right direction as well as acting as a PER advantage as well as where some cool things are.

In Morrowind, you had a minimap. A minimap that refused to let go of your hand. I really think your making too much of a big deal of it.

but then how will i find that fort when the only direction (in the entire game) is "a fort faaaaar to the west of here" <_<

I hope they make the compass less accurate. As in it will only point to the general direction of the target.

No worries, I got what you meant and I appreciate it. Perception is reality so I am happy to read and listen to what other people see when they look at this kind of stuff. It is actually amazing how often I find great ideas for improving my level of immersion or limiting negative stuff that bugs me in games just by being willing to listen to an opposing viewpoint and look for the positives and strategies that others see. Cheesy I know, but somewhat more effective than letting a lot of little (or even big) things ruin my experience.

I think your ideas for a dynamic system based on a structures size, proximity to settled and explored areas, and how noticeable it SHOULD be would be a great way to manage things. Like you say though, I think it might be too much to implement effectively especially with a game world this large.

Ok, I can understand both sides of this, why people would like the markers, or why some people feels it takes away from discovering and finding your own way to things...but what I really don't get is that people are saying it's MANDATORY and completely replaces exploration...what?? Have you ever tried, idk, maybe just, not looking at the compass? You aren't required to stare at your compass as you wander off...you know what the compass is for? Finding your way if you ARE lost. Its not like its a GPS yelling at you to "turn left after next cave and you will arrive at your destination" or "please make a U-turn when possible" It's a small graphic at the top of your screen. Its there if you NEED it. If you don't need it, which most of you are claiming, then don't bother looking at it...its simple. This is also why I never understood why people complained about fast travel....like...if you wanted to walk somewhere, you still can...it makes no logical sense to complain about an optional feature. If you complained about fast travel, but actually used the system, or complained about the compass, but actually looked at it to find your way, you are a hypocrite.

/end rant

The flip side being that if it is only there to help when you need it, why not just press the map button rather than have it permanently on the screen? I think that is what people are mostly saying. Just let it be turned off somehow to let players have the choice.

The compass is a mandatory feature. When a location pops up, the player will always peripherally see it.
Of course, I'm all for the compass. Roleplay? It's a part of my iPhone that slipped through Alduin's wormhole-thingy when he came back.

Same, I try to listen and understand both sides of any argument, even if I already know which side I'm supporting. And if something I was hoping for ends up being different or omitted, I try to take it in stride and not fall prey to the knee-jerk reactions that are sadly so prevalent on these forums. And if I do get angry at some changes, I know I'll usually come to accept them for what they are after some time has passed since the news.



I wouldn't be opposed to only seeing markers when I've purposely opened up the map, but I'd like the compass itself visible at all times, since it's much easier to stay true to my course when I can see the cardinal directions.

Both markers and fast-travel are optional to some extent, but if you play Oblivion immediately after playing Morrowind, you'll notice something. A lot of Oblivion's quests are designed with the assumption that the player will be using markers and fast-travel.

Indeed, the poor guidance was a flaw in Oblivion, but they've already promised much better location descriptions in Skyrim's quests, making it possible to play without markers.

You can disable markers

I make a big deal out of it because it is a big deal, to me and many other gamers, even if it isn't to you. What makes it worse it that it'd be such an easy fix too (the compass markers anyway). But console player like me just can't mod it out. So we want Beth to give us the option. A simple solution to quest markers would be to just scale them back for most quests, I can see the reason for pinpointing NPC's we must talk to, but beyond that Oblivion's markers were overkill, If the game tells us we need to kill this guy or save this kid from this dungeon, do we really need our hand held once we are in the dungeon mark on our map? No, like I said in my first post, it no different then following a stategy guide, which is not fun in any way. I never expected or wanted Morrowind's written/spoken directions, just not to have my hand held so much it insults my intelligence.

Yeah, we love you. Bukee. s2

Even trough I like the compass and think that it's just a game mechanism that needs to be a little tweaked. I too think that they should make it optional.

People seem to have a double standard regarding the compass. "It's too easy with the compass! It's insulting my intelligence!" or "We weren't given good directions! Now I've spent hours looking for some out-of-the-way place/object!"

M'aiq likes his compass.

Personally I'm not so sure.

either those are two different people, or that's the same person during the Morrowind era, then the Oblivion era

Same person.

Utter
Logical
Fallacy.

Your statement is a prime cut example of a.

An option for quest markers would be good, but only if the journal entries were more elaborate like in morrowind. If all a journal entry said was "go to cave x," than I would probably need a quest marker, but if it gave detailed directions than I would most definitely turn off the markers.

My only problem with the compass is that the game was built in mind with it. So instead of NPCs describing the way we now have that stupid GPS arrow showing us the way. If it wasn't for that one could easily disable it with a mod and everyone would be happy.

A bit of an oversimplification. I think most of the people making those comments were saying that the map markers sometimes seem to replace good directions making it impossible to not use the map markers to find your way.