Exactly. And people should realize that we're not going to be dealing with 6 year old Oblivion versions of everything in Skyrim. New engine, new tree handling, far better AI. So folks should avoid the trap of assuming that nothing has changed and we're going to get the same old thing all over again just because it has to run on the same old hardware from 6 years ago.

Very much worse, no grass, and everything pops up in front of you, better to reduce resolution to minimum. Remember then Oblivion was released the PC requirements was pretty tough, I booth a new video card for it and it was unable to run it on full as I could only afford a 180$ card.

Ok, I came in here late but I don't see it as that big a deal. And it makes more sense that city would have a gate, its tactical. This is a violent, violent time. You can't just have open archways like in Balmora.



Furthermore, it helps with game lag. The consoles can handle it, but it is not needed at all really.

i thought open cities were in...

I think the Consoles have a good balance of graphics and performance, IMO. On my PS3 I feel like it runs completely smooth, I'm having short load times and the graphics are still pretty good.

I am a console gamer, and I have faith in my console. I think it'll do just fine regardless of the game specs.

In my experience (and this is not indicative of EVERY PC gamer, just the few that I have talked with), the PC gamers I have talked with only talk trash on the consoles because the consoles hold a vast majority of the market share. It isn't that the consoles are crap, or non-capable machines, it is simply that these peoples chosen method of gaming seems to get forgotten in favor of the consoles.

That and I don't enjoy the idea of dumping butt-loads of cash into a new rig every time the latest game comes out... but that's just me.

Plus, the consoles were/are stuffed with state of the art equipment. Especially my 360 slim, which is no more than a year old, less than that actually. They are designed to be viable for a very long time, especially with the free software upgrades available every-so-many weeks or months. This helps keep their performance maximized, and running at the top of their game.

Besides, PC's and consoles are two different beasts. It isn't really fair to compare them as the styles of gaming are so different between the two.

Disclaimer:
*This post was in no way directed towards anyone in particular. It is simply the humble opinion of a console gamer and was not meant to ignite anyone in any way*

bliviongate:

You don't have to spend a butt load of money on a PC, at least not anymore. If you want the very best of the best that can run games that won't be out for 4 years, you can find yourself spending close to 2000 USD however. You can get a compuiter that runs Crysis, the most graphics intensive game out there on the highest settings for around 500-600 dollars. This price includes a 22" monitor, a decent speaker system, mouse, keyboard, 6 Gb of RAM, a fairly decent (asus) motherboard, a decent processor, 1 Tb of memory, and a fairly new (6 months-1 year) graphics card. Take out the monitor, speakers, and accessories, to make it 300-400 USD. When people say computers are expensive, they are mainly talking about processors (40-600 USD, 40 being about the strength of the one in an Xbox, 600 being one that is over 6X more powerful than that) and Windows (~200 USD).

While computers are expensive, they are not that much more expensive. the 500 USD version of a custom-made computer that I described above is about 3X better than your Xbox or 2.5X better than a PS3.

EDIT: If you want a cheap, but awesome computer, custom-built is the way to go. They are also much more easy to upgrade if you build them yourself.

YOU DO NOT need to upgrade a PCs hardware all of the time. With a PC, you can find yourself spending 600 USD on a new processor, but only if you are foolish, or rich. Wait a year, and that 600 USD processor will cost 150 USD. (Processors are the most expensive part of a computer, so maybe this is not the best example)

Other price drops over a year go like this:
Motherboard-New=300 USD After 1 year- 130
Video card-New 230 USD After 1 year- 140
2 Tb hard Drive- 90 USD After 1 year- 40
RAM- Prices vary, but the price of RAM drops significantly, more than half over a year.

Computers are only expensive if you buy brand new hardware.

i play on my xbox 360 i enjoy it and if you think my console ways are holding you back oh darn at least im enjoying it

You do notice that Valve's motto is "If it's broken, cover it with a hat," right? Why does everyone love them so much?

oblivion ran better on my xbox than on my pc... probably because my computer isnt anything special jsut sometihng to get me by

That's what I was wondering before:



Would you need a PC designed specifically for gaming in order to play it well (or at least on par with a console), or can people who play the odd game but aren't willing to pay for/build a "gaming PC" able to play well?

PS3 will last 10 years, when PS4 comes out in 2012-2014 PS3 will still be active like PS2 is now. PS1 lasted until 2005 and PS2 is still going. Sony does not like to retire their older consoles quickly like Microsoft and Nintendo does that is what they mean by 10 years. They will still release a new console before the end of PS3's life span.

All you need is 2 Gb RAM (40 USD), a decent (80 USD) processor, and a video card that may cost you 60-80 USD to run Oblivion on max settings.
- To run it decently, 2 Gb Ram (40 USD), a decent Processor (50 USD), and a 40 USD graphics card.

EDIT: Also, open up your computer and used canned air to blow out some of that dust, it will make your computer overheat much less.

It's a simple proven fact that *modern* PCs have more potential than consoles. Consoles came out 6 years ago. They are running on hardware that is at least 6 years old that is also cost effective (in some form or another) for the company making it. In the 6 years since consoles have come out, chipmakers and other hardware manufacturers continue to churn out better products. That's their job, and they won't stop just because of video game consoles. Therefore, throughout those 6 years, PC hardware has been able to advance, well, 6 years past console hardware. PC games have the ability to look much better than current console games. Look at what people can do with DirectX 11 for instance. It's not a flame war, it's just fact.

When a new series of consoles come out, they will have hardware that's at least 6 years better than the current ones. Their visual quality will be improved, just as how the PS3 looks better than the PS2 which looks better than the PS1 which is better than a Super Nintendo. Why some games look better than others on the same system, that's just a question of processing power over visuals. You can have a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Rain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minecraft.

Just Cause 2 is able to be so big because there isn't much processing power involved aside from graphics. The NPCs are all generics. They are spawned and populated randomly. They walk down a street, and they keep walking. When you get too far away, they vanish. One flaw that I noticed with Just Cause 2 is that it also loads select vehicles within a certain window of time. Meaning, you don't have the potential to see all the vehicles at any time. You'll see a handful of vehicles, and after a period of time, one model is replaced by another. When you crash a vehicle, it goes away. When you kill people, their bodies vanish. You play in third person, so the textures are of a lower quality. The enemy AI's are very stupid. The forests, streets, villages, and other areas aren't very dense with detail, to save on processing demand.

Oblivion, on the other hand, keeps track of everything. It knows what NPCs are supposed to be where at what time. It knows that if you drop an item, you'll be able to go back and get it no matter how far away from it you go or how long it's been. When you kill someone, they stay dead. The NPCs are nearly all specific, no random spawn NPCs. Oblivion lacks some of the shortcuts and hardware optimizations later games had the advantage of having. In development, the game was being created for unknown hardware limitations. It's better to play it safe than sorry.

Skyrim now has the advantages Oblivion did not. It's shaping up to be a beautiful game. Some things have a lot to be desired visually, but overall the quality is being vastly improved. I've never seen a game try to pull off dynamic snow before, and the only game I've played with good dynamic clouds was Just Cause 2. And those could have used some improvement

what im worried about is the lack of memory space on the HD dvd's that are used for xbox, so basicly with all these new changes ( unless they put the game on 2 dvd's like mASS effect 2 did ) and the improved graphics and unique envirement we would either not see alot of choises to make during the MQ, all the dragons will have the same voice or a la oblivion alot of guards with the same voice/ lines either way something that we wouldnt be happy about hearing it ( since i reckon a hd dvd is able to only handle 8gigs or something, altho the pc versions will be something around 10-12 gigs when its installed i dont think it will be enough for a game with so much content in it specially when they are improving the graphics, adding alot more different in environments, unique dungeons and that sort of things )


also u brought up red dead redemption which i loved but that game didnt have dungeons, or multiple choises in the mq or just not alot of people which u could talk too. but about the open cities and stuff, its not what the consoles can handle but rather what the game engine could render.

Well your right on the motherboard and Ram but new video cards tend to run around $500 and 2 TB HDD is in no way only 40 bucks. 1 TB HDD goes for $75, 2TB HDD Raid 0 would be $150 right now.

As for making the best of the best computer for around 2000, that's not true. I made the very best desktop that can be made in the world commercially right now and it cost me about 4200 (most of that is the SSD RAID 0 and the 3-way SLI) Of course my system is complete overkill on any game made today and in the next 6+ years but yeah lol.

At the time, would that be considered a "gaming PC"? Or would most "family PCs" be able to manage it? Please excuse my ignorance - I've never owned a proper desktop PC (only ever had the cheapest, most basic laptop, and before that my Mum had a cheap desktop but I can't remember it - it was quite a few years ago) so I have no idea about specs and how they have changed over time.

XBox:
3.2GHz Tri-core CPU
512MB of RAM (for both system and graphics)

My computer:
2.4GHz Core2Duo Core CPU
4GB of RAM (For system)
GTX260 graphics card with 896 MB of dedicated VRAM
2 60GB SSDs

My computer is far superior to an XBox, so yeah, I think consoles are holding back not just TES, but all gaming in general.

That would be an average PC depending on what you chose for a processor and graphics card. However, Oblivion was an computer destroyer like Morrowind was it came out. Only the best computers could run it on max settings and not lag. Hell, even my best computer now still jumps occasionally due to Oblivion not being able to use all 24 GB of ram. It's a subtle jump but a jump none the same. Even Crysis on full settings doesn't jump on my computer :sadvaultboy:

Consoles are very cost effective: $15 RAM, $20-40 motherboard, $20-50 video card, $20 power supply, $20 DVD/ $30 Blu ray disk reader (yes they are cheap now), internally built software (free), and $10 for plastic casing.

That is about $100 to build an Xbox, probably lower because it is mass produced so $80, and about $150 to build a PS3, or around $100 (mass production is easier in Japan, as they are more technologically advanced than most parts of the US and Europe, except Germany and California.)

That is a huge yield for the consoles (100 for Xbox 150-200 for PS3) , and I actually probably over-estimated prices here.

By the way, that $100 dollars you pay for 250 Gb? The hard drives cost around $20. You can currently get a 2 Tb (8X larger) computer hard drive for cheaper, at around 80 USD

This guy obviously made this topic to start a flame war. Skyrim has been confirmed on the consoles so there is nothing anyone can od about it. They are not going to eliminate 1000000 costumers just to make the game open ended. Just stop arguing, it will accomplish absolutely nothing!


END THIS THREAD.

I honestly don't think he did. Isn't the OP on a console himself? It's been cool that the thread has got this far without much flaming though.

[Edit]: Yep, OP has a 360 gamertag.

Ahhh but you wont especially since PC has a bad variety of games most of the good games are FPS,RPG's or RTS I know Im a PC gamer stick with consples if you prefer variety.

The comp in my sig is a $1,000 rig. but there are things about it I didn't really need, like the expensive case.

The more I read on this thread, the more it seems that consoles are pretty awesome, especially for the money.

I never did use the open cities mod for Oblivion.
Isn't an open city necessary for having dragons flying in?

@ Sleign

You have to know where to look. You also have to spend a lot of time looking. A 2Tb hard drive is on sale for $80 at new egg right now, it will be $40 by this time next year. I was not talking about top of the line video cards, just fairly decent ( next to newest) models.

How much of that 4200 was software? Also, you bought the best of the best processors and video cards right? The best processors around go for 1000 USD, the best video cards go for 500 USD, not to mention the fact that SLI doubles that price, Add 300 for the expensive version of Windows you bought, and there is your other 200 USD. You probably wasted money on that machine, as you could have gotten the next-to-best thing for half the price.

NEVER buy the newest stuff, it is over priced.

@Chineapplepunk

That is a better than average computer, the RAM is average, and the processors are average, but most average computers don't have good video cards, or don't have one at all.