http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml#19, the 4 cornerstones of the Provisional House, i.e. the place where Vehk goes to find his children wherever they are, are described. It appears that they deal with Voodoo or Hoodoo traditions and rituals, something I'm not necessarily that knowledgeable in yet. I mostly got the 4th one figured out, but I need help with the first 3. Here are all of the cornestones:



Thanks in advance.

so, i was going to post something and then read your previous thread on the subject and figured that i was looking at this much too narrowly and was therefore most likely totally tripping. with that out of the way, i always figured the first was the Adamantine. but hell, i dont even know what these stones are suppose to corner exactly

My thoughts exactly. Which is why I went ahead and made a thread about all the Cornerstones. I usually just go do searching on my own whenever I have a question, but I really couldn't find any good resource of voodoo-hoodoo info, and I'm still not even sure that voodoo is predominantly involved.

...Yeah...this is a doozy.

the Velothi imagery of Houses (as in political organizations, the House of Troubles, Provisional House, etc.) and their relations (windows, doors, cities, etc.) is fascinating. i feel that the sermons must be taken as a whole in order to understand this and other topics, cause allegory is extended and stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone. found it mildly interesting that cornerstones are traditionally placed at the north east part of the house.

eh, not much help am i?

Eh, you're trying. Can't be mad atcha.

The Northeast bit is kinda interesting though. Points up and to the right, both positive extremes.

North-East. Inbetween Akavir and Atmora- the face-snaked amalgamation of egg and northern king, progenitur of the deep throat that comes after to the star-wound.

err... sorry

Fang Lair has dust and an ancient dwarven library. I wouldn't run that down very far though.

After mulling it over (not trying to throw this off topic) the third one seems to fit the description of a tampon.

Well the Forth sounds like NIRN or the Amulet of Kings for some reason... need more coffee.
The Third made me think of LRKHANs Heart? The First Stone.

That's quite interesting.

The fourth cornerstone is not that complicated, more so since the text basically indicates what it is supposed to do already. In voodoo, the bones of a black cat are sometimes used as a magic charms (quote from memory): 'that the doctors say make you invisible from your enemies'.

In what way that is relevant to Vivec, I don't know immediately. If I could wager a guess, I would say it might be more relevant to Vehk's greatest lover than to himself.

As you want to explore 'occultism' then there is such a thing as a 'glory-hand', the fingers of which must be lit like a candle - but I seem to remember another reference to a finger per se somewheres ... one moment and I will pop over to have a word at the Adams Family mansion - I'm sure thing will know about this

re the first verse

Our old friend wiki-pedia has something to say about this:


However that does not jibe well with the pointing finger - which seems more like a compass or the fickle finger of fate.

yet note that a wick is a vulgarism for a man's [censored]



Taking another route -
Try the shoot of a plant
And that might also relate to a mandragora - or any plant that points to the sun.




Shoes have tongues
or the tongue that is a book-mark
you can write in the dust
the whisper of shoes in the dust

makes me think of:
throat parched and dry as dust
for love read care
then feather dusters - lol

But I am wondering if this whole thing is just about procreation? That would fit Vivec and children - gotta feel sorry for any children born to Vivec

I was actually thinking Cyrodiil for the 3rd, so it kinda fits


well, i was just saying that Morrowind is north-east of tamriel... but ok...

some more thoughts:
library is mentioned in relation to magnus (see sermon 17, iirc), "love that ancient libraries needed" makes some sense in regards to creation. dust (and its derivatives, dirt, ash, etc.) are another prevalent symbol in Chimeri mythos. dust and tongue together are mentioned in the Scripture of the word: "The clothes of the broken map are worn only by fools and heretics. The map is an exit for laziness. It is the dusty tongue, which is to say the given chart that most take as a story that is complete. No word is true until it is eaten." Ive been tempted to call this one Red Mountain from the getgo, though it doesnt hold up well. perhaps it is an ancient sylable of power (CHIM, though thats much to generic imo. there are of course others)

The idea of a plant is an interesting one, especially given my own [secret] tendency to abuse this metaphor. There are two prominent colors in mythos, Red and Black. i am tempted to say that this is Red, with it's shape being the shape of the red wavelength of light. im really stretching this one, especially given that Cyrodiil is previously mentioned in that very same Sermon.

and a totally random observation: techno dulls my brain. kinda nice. carry on.

A background in various occult and magical practices would be useful here, obviously. Unfortunately I can't provide that.

One thing to consider though, the story of the sermons is the story of a world falling apart - might the cornerstones be related to establishing (or reestablishing) order?

I was only thinking about the tower stones that are believed to hold things together - I had not thought about replacing them or reinforcing them before ... nice one

What were those red, thorny plants in the Ashlands where the Redoran Ald'Rhun is?

So is there a progression like: animal, vegetable, magica, mineral? Assuming wind/aether/magica correspond.

I had assumed for some reason that the cornerstones were the Daedric Princes or their Realms ... add one = ?

But there again if this is aimed at Dunmer then they would more likely correspond to locations in Morrowind - (specifically Vvardenfel) maybe to Daedric Shrines - also can the cornerstones also be aligned with any of the Houses? Redoran would follow Boetithiah I suppose ... etc



Looking at magica & stuff:


plants/ingredients do not have spirits ... Alchemy


the love of writing/reading - love of knowing = philosophy ... Scrolls


object/s - cat's cradle? - spirit-linked ... Enchantments


bones do have spirit links; - what "word" is this? ... Necromancy / Ancestor spirits

Not sure about this at all ... maybe you see some sense in this matrix or you can add to or alter it meaningfully?
does someone have an idea about a Dunmer or Daedric rune/word this could be - in which case they might all have an associated rune
A last thought as this is Vivec - what about the structure of Vivec City? Could that be relevant?

By god I will be soon enough, dammit!!!

I'm not exactly sure how to react to that...

Perhaps some elucidation would be in order. Sermon 19, which describes Vivec's creation of the Provisional House, precipitates his seeking out and dealing with the eight monsters (it might be useful to consider the significance of the eight monsters). As such, Sermon 19 marks a transition in the sermons, Vivec's tutelage of Nerevar is mostly over and now Vivec is enacting his own plans. As such, to understand the meaning of Sermon 19 (and consequently of the Provisional House and its cornerstones), take a look at Sermon 18. Something very important happens in Sermon 18. What's different about Sermon 18? There's a common motif in the sermons which Sermon 18 "breaks." Find what's significant about Sermon 18, then ask what the provisional house is, what the eight monsters are, and so forth.

As for the exact meaning of the cornerstones, I don't know. I think they're a mixture of magical formulas and concept-adumbrations, rather than concrete things, places, or ideas.

...sorry. Was a joke...

Just sayin' that I wanna HAVE that knowledge soon.

Apologies for that mixup.

Interesting note re corners:



will add quotes as I find them

here is something that dumbkid added in answer to another thread:

"Enter as Lord Dagon has written: come slow and bring four keys. Know that then you are royalty, a new breed of destroyer, whose garden shall flood with flowers known and unknown, as it was in the mythic dawn. Thus shall you return your first primal wail and yet come out different. It shall this time be neonymbiosis, master akin to Master, whose Mother is miasma."

It's got me wondering whether the four cornersones are in fact the above mentioned keys?

Um, four Commentaries books.

Well just looking at things that come in fours I assume you mean that the four commentaries are the keys? Could they also be the four cornerstones?

they dont fit any of the descriptions, and were not writen at the time that Vehk formed the Provisional House. furthermore, we already know the identity of the 4th cornerstone.

I highly, highly doubt that. Mainly because it would be boring to me. Paradise isn't the Provisional House. I won't play like I know EXACTLY what the Provisional House is, but I'm sure it isn't Camoran's Paradise.

I don't know if there being four Mythic Dawn Commentaries is significant or coincidental. It's possible the author just got tired after four. The 36 lessons of Vivec and the Mythic Dawn Commentaries both deal with recreating the world, so they are similar in that respect at least (though from different perspectives).

Cornerstone Three reminds me a bit of a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojo. I'm currently trying to find some more info on mojos and hoodoo in general.

i was thinking that it relates to the 4 corners of the house of troubles if anything.