The Cost of Saving : V - Skyrim

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:32 pm

This topic appears to simply be a slightly varied version of http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1168940-save-game-cheating-and-how-to-solve-it/ thread.

90% wants to save evertime he/she wants? I end my case.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:30 pm

While appreciating and completely understanding games reluctaness to approach this question as even being a question worth asking, I still believe there is a better discussion to be had - rather than a simple response.

You'll only get a simple response because saving is there as necessity. Giving the player a penalty for saving is unfair.

Edit: Most gamers save often. I hit the F5 on a regular basis, if we were to lose XP or have to spend gold. I'd be stuck with a level one character with crappy equipment.

» Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:38 am

NO! If you don't want to save often then don't save often. Easy as that. If you want to risk a big decision (although TES don't give you any meaningful ones in terms of story choices), then have some will power. The only ay id be okay with this is if it was optional. But even then, I don't see many people using it.

» Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:12 am

I once played a game where you could suspend play any time you wanted, but that you could only load that up once. In other words, as soon as you loaded the save, it deleted it.

This meant that you could stop playing and resume anytime you wanted (like a pause, unpause) but that you couldn't do something "gamey" like save in front of a mini game and reload until you get it right.

The game did have "checkpoints" that you could load up if you died and try again. It also had a running autosave feature similar to OneNote where if the game crashed or you lost power it would resume from it's most recent autosave.

All in all, it addressed all the legitimate reasons to have many save files by protecting the user and their progress, but denied the player the ability to game the system. To me, it was a lot of fun. I never lost any progress, yet I was legitimately concerned about the possibility of losing a fight or trying a mini game that was over my head. I liked the balance.

I think TES would be more fun with a similar system. It would serve to make the little things in the game more valuable.

» Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:40 am

I think some people are missing the point - as I am not saying remove the option, just limit the option with the understanding that it will cost me something to save or re-load a game.

No, I think we pretty much caught that. We're just emphatically opposed to the very concept.

Many games have created a cost system for dying, while they limit save game abilities while enemies are afoot; such as diablo.

Not a terribly big fan of stuff like that either, but it does fit better in Diablo-style games - i.e, infinitely respawning hackfests. Which is not what ES games are.

The other popular genre with death penalties is the MMO..... where the developers want you to have your play time dragged out and set back as much as possible, so that you keep paying more subscription fees (or buy penalty-reducers from the ca$h $hop, in the case of "free" MMOs). Yeah, not a good example to follow either. (Also, like Diablo-esque games, infinitely respawning)

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:10 pm

I used to reload saves every time I did something wrong. Nowadays I will just pay fines for accidentally killing NPCs and picking up 'owned' items. It saves me a bit of time and effort. Oblivion was designed in mind to allow for mistakes and once people realize that they can take it easy if they want.

» Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:30 am

This is stupid.

Saving si like an imaginary reset button, its not real in the video game, its like your controlling someone, adn you role play as them. They dont know your loading or saving, and tis not liek "ohh, you sved, you lose ten blade skills", this is idiotic.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:29 pm

I'm reminded of what is probably my most saved-and-loaded sequence in Fallout 3 (I'm sure I've done it a dozen times or more in every character I've played the game with)....

...blowing up the traffic jam down on the south edge of the map by Flooded Metro(?). I love that explosion. It's epic.

I'll stop by there, quicksave, blow it all up, and then reload and repeat a few times from different angles. It's great! And I always remember to reload it back to pristine condition so that I can do it again another day if I want to.

And you want me to take a penalty for that. :sadvaultboy:

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:56 pm

In a way.. yes.

In a word.......No.

» Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:00 am

I wouldn't mind an (obviously optional) hardcoe mode that only allows you to save every 3 minutes or so. I'd probably use it. I save compulsively and I think it's a bad habit.

NO! If you don't want to save often then don't save often. Easy as that. If you want to risk a big decision (although TES don't give you any meaningful ones in terms of story choices), then have some will power. The only ay id be okay with this is if it was optional. But even then, I don't see many people using it.

ugh, this logic again

Listen, if somebody consciously makes a decision NOT to quicksave, then doesn't that make a statement about the games difficulty?

Obviously savegame penalizing shouldn't be on by default, but there's nothing wrong with an option that limits how often you can save,

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:29 pm

I cannot tell you the number of times, since I joined this forum that I have typed the advice "Save often, make hard saves, don't rely on quicksaves or autosave. Even if you don't keep a ton of saves, always save just after completing a quest, just before starting a quest, midway through a longish quest, or at any key moment." I also save if I happen to score a sweet piece of loot, as I once got a ring I had been trying to get for a while only to CTD a few mintues later... having to restore an earlier save, and the ring did not respawn in the loot drop when I went back. So sad.

I generally save before entering a dungeon - in MW, for example, I frequently wandered into places where I got pwned because it was over my level. Heh. Nothing like reloading that save, and having your character say to herself "Nah... I think I'll skip this ancestral tomb for today... " :lol:

To penalize members for being smart, in saving frequently, would do nothing but put people off. I actually get annoyed at games that determine the save points, it inhibits the way I play.

I agree with Leydenne here.

I mean, saving is a tool for the player. The real person. Not the character. You should not be punished for failing or because you need to quit the game.

» Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:52 am

I think there should be a way to penalize players for not saving often. Wait! there are! CTDs, shutdowns, glitches, real life...

EDIT: and about the roguelike saves, corrupt saves.

» Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:00 am

no No nO NO. END OF STORY.

» Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:40 am

Just have it as an ootion...

» Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:19 am

I would much rather have new game+

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:13 pm

Simply put: I want to save when I want, where I want, how often I want, who I want! With nothing to stop me.

+1

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:25 pm

Whilst I enjoy the regular TES save game mechanic, should the DEV not attempt to take the next step in creating a new "SAVE GAME" mechanic that will actually cost the player?

Understanding that saving is probably the most important aspect of any game (related to RPG, as a simple mistake will kill you), should there not be price (money, time, % loss in skills, etc...)

Absolutely not.
Personally, I save often with multiple save slots, but only reload for death or glitch.
The idea of being penalized, in my game, for playing cautiously, seems rather absurd to me :down:

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:09 pm

AH HELL NO!

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:44 pm

As my pal Francis would say....No.

» Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:09 am

Neeewp.

As my pal Francis would say....No.

I hate saving.

That Francis?

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:59 pm

So...you'd like to punish everyone who plays on a PC, or when a console hits a nasty bug? Sorry, bud, but I've never believe my games to have the most perfect stability, even on consoles. As such, I prefer to keep a long list of saves, and save often, so that if part of the game bugs out, crashes, freezes, becomes corrupted, and etc, I'd like the ability to go back to the closest save point I was at. Also, some of us have somewhat of a hectic schedule, and need to be able to save and quit immediately when real life things pop up.

Not to mention, after spending a good amount of time in a dungeon, only to accidentally slip, fall, and die and thus forcing me to restart would just piss me off a lot.

And immersion? BS point. It'd be "immersion" if all your saved files related to your character were erased upon death.

Lastly, why do you care about how the rest of us play? Are you that selfish that you want to shove the way you play down our throats? If you want to penelize those who like to save often, do yourself a favor and make a mod or have the willpower to have such strict play. I'm not going to tell you how to play, that's not my business. Hell, I don't care if your DB looks like an eggplant that eats people.

Last time I checked, the dude was just suggesting an unpopular opinion whilst trying to explain his position and defend it. He hasn't blown off the response to it nor has he tried to rudely shove it down our throats. Let's not overreact here.

As for my personal opinion, I would rather just be able to save without penalty whenever I like due to the fact that I'm incredibly paranoid after years of playing RPGs.

» Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:51 am

I'm not sure I understand the idea behind this. :shrug:

I don't buy a gun in anticipation of a mortally self-inflicted wound.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:49 pm

No reason to change the save mechanic. Not a single reason.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:24 pm

no.

If you really need to do that just drop 10 gold everytime you want to save. I do not want that system in the game.

» Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:49 am

Well save on demand in modded oblivion is necessary since they improve stability and allow backup option
Autosave in oblivion is nice feature but I prefer save reminder in my oblivion installation

From other side cost for saving is great for hard mode, for example after I reach better stability in my heavy modded Oblivion I enchant my game experience with some mods like
Sleep to Save
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11673
In my game %PCname need to sleep and eat everyday and he can sleep not only in beds but also use camping kits, bedrolls and even simple on ground, but there risk to be ambushed during sleep, become pickpocketed, catch disease or become bitten by vampire, so good inns become more useful different rooms have different service and cost, if I become friend of innkeeper the allow stay for free.

Another thing also handle of death of %PCname since it force player to reload last save game
Death No More v102
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24317
Death has penalties
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22121
Alternatives to death and reload
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23862
Never die
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=30586
Wrye Shivering Death
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28561
Some of my characters die like heroes they have memorable graves and tombs, some become daggerfallesque vampires, one become an Lich, one become Daedric prince, some still alive but in one they are same they all are different roles different characters for roleplay.
Thats boring to play same character all time that can do all, mods greatly improve replayability of Oblivion
Some time ago I purchase PS3 and play Demons Souls thats interesting game one of best games on PS3 but in comparison with Modoblivion in game mechanic it looks dull, but I still enjoyed with it.
Since console users cant use mods nice hardcoe mode thats simulate best immersive and game mechanic mods features will make Skyrim much more popular.