The Critical Esistence Failure/Battle Fatigue Issue.

Post » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:48 pm

"Critical Existence Failure" is the break from reality often seen in video games where it doesn't matter how much health an enemy has lost, that enemy will always fight with it's fullest strength until that one last point of health has been subtracted with the players weapon or spell. I felt Oblivion was an egregious example. It didn't matter how close that bandit was to dying, he was always bashing my head as hard as when he first ambushed me and talked about how a mud-crab was harder to fight than me. I'd like to think Skyrim has a chance to improve on what I believe to be a silly mechanic. Some ways I think enemy behavior could be improved include:

1: When the enemy has lost more than half its health, It becomes tired and it's attacks become weaker. I could imagine this being implemented by draining the enemy stamina once the target range of health has been reached.
2: When some enemies become tired, they use powerful desperation/berserk attacks to try and win back a lost advantage. Being bloodied and tired however, these desperation attacks would be limited in the number of times they could be performed.
3: Some enemies in face of certain death will receive a limited time adrenaline rush that will boost their stamina and attack power.
4: Some enemies would rather live than die and will flee if they feel they can't win.

What do you guys think? Would you implement battle fatigue differently? Do you like what I've suggested? Do you think the idea of battle fatigue is a load of poppycock and horse feathers? Do you like "Critical Existence Failure"? All I ask is that you please be polite and respectful on this topic. I don't want this one ending in a mess like too many other topics have.
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emily grieve
 
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Post » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:30 am

I like your ideas and don't see any flaws with them, hopefully something similar to this will be implemented.
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Teghan Harris
 
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Post » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:27 pm

I completely agree, but im a little dissapointed with some of the gameplay footage in these regards. My main point is when you perform a perfect neck slice on a bandit with lots of blood spray near the end of a fight and he doesnt relent
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Tyrone Haywood
 
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Post » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:51 am

Yes, I think a greater stamina drain or similar would be a good idea to implement on lower health NPCs, as well as slowing their attacks.
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Jesus Duran
 
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Post » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:09 am

I like your ideas, just one addition
Some enemies after certain damage should sheath/drop their weapon(s) and beg for mercy
(beaten up enemy is extremely good source of information)
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Haley Cooper
 
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Post » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:51 am

It would be nice if they could vary aggression as well, even during combat, so that if you steal an apple by accident the storekeep doesnt hurl her body at you in a stabbing frenzy. But yes, fleeing at least will probably be in there. I would not be surprised if they added some semi complex AI like more defensive combat at 50% health and extremes at 20% health. I heard Tod say in an interview on combat that he want to "give you that feeling that one of you is going to die" which he said was missing in Oblivion. So in short, if it isn't in there, it's probably because they tried implementing it and it didn't work out for some reason.
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Lucie H
 
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Post » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:56 pm

Yes, this and location damage would make the game 100% better. I don't care what obstacles, time, money are in the way, this would make the game better than any other feature, it is worth whatever resources are necessary to add.

I want enemies who get tired and slow down, and I want to get tired too. Running out of fatigue while swimming? Drowned. This gives you a reason to use a smaller weapon that does less damage, or wear lighter armor which gives less protection.
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bonita mathews
 
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Post » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:15 am

Damn it. I've always thought about this, and it has always irked me in video games.
I hope that it somehow makes an appearance in Skyrim's vanilla version, because I do not have a pc that is powerful enough to handle skyrim.
:/
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teeny
 
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Post » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:29 pm

I just thought of one additional behavior I would add to my list:
5: If an enemy knows a healing spell he/she will try to use it if he/she feels the spell can be cast before the player can land another blow. This could be judged by calculating the distance between the player and the enemy. Greater distances==safe to cast.
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Tiff Clark
 
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Post » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:42 am

A bit like the game Condemned 2: Bloodshot

Watch a few vids showing the reaction of you're opponents when hit.
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James Potter
 
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Post » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:15 pm

Sounds good!
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xxLindsAffec
 
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Post » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:12 am

"Critical Existence Failure" is the break from reality often seen in video games where it doesn't matter how much health an enemy has lost, that enemy will always fight with it's fullest strength until that one last point of health has been subtracted with the players weapon or spell. I felt Oblivion was an egregious example. It didn't matter how close that bandit was to dying, he was always bashing my head as hard as when he first ambushed me and talked about how a mud-crab was harder to fight than me. I'd like to think Skyrim has a chance to improve on what I believe to be a silly mechanic. Some ways I think enemy behavior could be improved include:

1: When the enemy has lost more than half its health, It becomes tired and it's attacks become weaker. I could imagine this being implemented by draining the enemy stamina once the target range of health has been reached.
2: When some enemies become tired, they use powerful desperation/berserk attacks to try and win back a lost advantage. Being bloodied and tired however, these desperation attacks would be limited in the number of times they could be performed.
3: Some enemies in face of certain death will receive a limited time adrenaline rush that will boost their stamina and attack power.
4: Some enemies would rather live than die and will flee if they feel they can't win.

What do you guys think? Would you implement battle fatigue differently? Do you like what I've suggested? Do you think the idea of battle fatigue is a load of poppycock and horse feathers? Do you like "Critical Existence Failure"? All I ask is that you please be polite and respectful on this topic. I don't want this one ending in a mess like too many other topics have.


I'm not sure if this is as a result of FCOM and Duke Patricks, but in Oblivion the enemies certainly run away from me if they are getting low on health.
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Da Missz
 
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Post » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:21 am

I'm not sure if this is as a result of FCOM and Duke Patricks, but in Oblivion the enemies certainly run away from me if they are getting low on health.

I assume those are mods? If so, I don't have them installed. I did however, have one experience in a Necromancer dungeon in which I had a lot of fun with a vanilla spell that did damage over time. The poor necromancers would fly through the air and land on their backs. Thanks to the timing of the damage, they would then play the animation of the enemy getting back up, only for their HP to run out a quarter of the way through. It actually looked like they were trying to lift their broken bodies up with their dying breath. That was fun.
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rae.x
 
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Post » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:59 am

I'm not sure if this is as a result of FCOM and Duke Patricks, but in Oblivion the enemies certainly run away from me if they are getting low on health.


I distinctly remember enemies running away from me in vanilla Oblivion.
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asako
 
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Post » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:21 pm

I dont care.
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Darian Ennels
 
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Post » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:42 pm

I dont care.

Why not? Just curious.
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Alisha Clarke
 
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Post » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:32 pm

If any of my enemies try to flee from a fight they will catch a fireball to the back of the skull, if anyone gets into a fight with me then they had better finish what they started! After all, there is nothing better in life than to crush one's enemies, see them driven before you...
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Emily Graham
 
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Post » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:35 pm

One problem with "as you take damage, you lose speed/power/defense/etc" systems (at least when applied to the player) is...... if you're already in a position where you're losing? The whole "get weaker" thing just makes you lose harder. It can reduce combat to "You kick their butt easily, or you DIE DIE DIE!" Especially if the speed reduction means that you can't even flee.

It may be more "realistic".... but is it fun, or frustrating?
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Vickytoria Vasquez
 
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