Not being innocent doesn't make you evil automatically, nor does being innocent make you good.
If a kid points at a toy in the shop demanding they get it, you give them it and walk out the store, but never paid.
Does that make the child evil?

Yeah I think we were on the same page to begin with
All the enemies seem rather cliché and it makes the games dialogue/story bland and boring since there's nothing new or deviating, not even something seen as controversial

No i did not miss your point, i just dont find it realistic for everyone to tell you their story. And why are people so stupid considering me using caps to ''highlight'' a certain text as flaming?
I guess we can agree to disagree then. DUDE there is nothing wrong with killing Caesar, he is not the best leader, just a pre follower with a though child hood and a obsession for making Vegas he′s own personal capital city (kinda like me : / ) and he approves of slavery and murdering and burning and backstabbing. Soooo wanna tell me again how come he is the best?
People can easily be so inhuman if made so. The Thalmor consider themselves a race that are the once that are supposed to rule earth, so they dont consider themselves evil, merely doing their duty. I would say the idea is evil and the people are just normal people that think they know whats best for them. The opposite of the Legion, good goal with bad people (although i do like some of the people, but majority are bad guys)

Caps signify SHOUTING!! If you want to make a piece of text clear and understandable without causing flames, use either bold, italics or and underline. They also look a lot neater than all caps.

For the millionth time, no one is saying that every NPC in the game needs to have a backstory. Key characters such as Tenpenny should have a backstory.

damn keep your act together. Ok would you be happy if i said if many? dude thats just my opinion dont go [censored] around like an [censored].

And they also do not need to tell their story themselves. You could figure it out yourself, asking other people and doing a good-old fashioned detective's job. If you want too, of course, which I do because I like story. Doc Mitchell comes into mind again - he says "I know how it feels having something taken away from me" and you can leave it at that if you want, or you can do some digging, visit Vault 21 and ask around, learn the background story for the place and its inhabitants, then go back to Mitch and talk with him about this.

That is all optional, and sure could have been for Tenpenny where people like R.J. could just, well, kill him, and people like... the rest of us(?) could discover that he's a rather deep character with underlying motives and reasons as to why he made his tower for rich people (which are also kind of weird, people being rich in the wasteland without them doing anything to gain their wealth either, unless they robbed a bottle cap bank) and why he want Megaton gone. Maybe there could have been a story that he, at a younger and less wealthy age, helped build Megaton and then there was corruption and leadership disputes and he was kicked out, someone else taking over and discredited Tenpenny for all the good things he did for the community. So he thinks "one day I'm going to show them" and he got rich somehow and founded Tenpenny Tower, but he still wanted rid of those people who kicked him out and ruined part of his life, and Mr. Burke, the true evil, had a "solution".

Instead of him, you know, just wanting Megaton gone because it ruins his view and gives the player an opportunity to set of a nuke at the start of the game for the lulz and really bad compensation.

You make it sound like its a bad thing killing him... He′s bad, mostly i dont bother with the stories of bad people, Caesar is an exception although i did kill him too.

A bad thing if he actually had a story, background and even a real personality. In my opinion, he's not really bad nor good. He's just uninteresting, barely any dialogue or importance in the world and I don't bother with him at all.

In my option this basically boils down to story vs game play. Fallout 3, Oblivion and Skyrim do not have the best storytelling or background but play much better then other games. Where as NV, Mass Effect and Dragon Age have more in depth storytelling. Different aspects of these games are week where others are stronger.

On topic though I always assumed that he (at this point) had gotten too old and delusional to get into too much trouble with the Enclave and be involled in the wasteland.

He is bad, nuking Megaton (even though it wasnt he′s idea) is bad.

Fallout New Vegas actually had better gameplay as its combat was 3000 times better then fallout 3. I liked fallout 3 mostly cause of the ruined wasteland, and super mutants, and if it wasnt for miniguns, missile launchers and fat man i would have quit playing it long time ago. BTW week=weak but that isnt important

Technically, you nuke Megaton. You fix the bomb and you activate the detonator. For like 300 caps. If you don't, and instead shoot Burke in the face, then Tenpenny isn't guilty of this atrocity? Then all he's guilty of is sending a few mercenaries on a mission to aquire a T-51b, and that failed. And also shooting the occasional wasteland critter/wanderer from his balcony. Other than that, there's nothing else to tell us if he's evil. If you are a good character, he never blows up a city and therefore isn't evil, right? The mission he sent mercenaries on wasn't an act of evil, was it? He even let ghouls live in his tower if you ask his tenants if it's ok with them (which it isn't, so you have them kicked out and Tenpenny is ok with that too.)

Is he evil now? If you play a good guy, he isn't evil. Just an old, confused man that lives on a balcony. If you play as an evil guy, you can blow up a town for him for your own entertainment. But even then, you and Burke did most of the work. Tenpenny just said "that heap of junk in the horizon is a sore in my eyes in this otherwise beautiful landscape..." and Mr. Burke replied "I could have that taken care of, sir (evil laughter inside his head)", then a few days later you set off a nuke.

It doesnt matter what he does, but what he tries to do. Would you say i wasnt evil if i TRIED to kill somebody but failed? He sends Burke to find someone to bomb Megaton, and that makes him guilty, no matter what. I am sorry for your sake if you cant understand [censored] so obvious.

I agree that if someone asks another person to kill someone, they are just as guilty in the end as the person they asked. But did Tenpenny ask Burke to blow up megaton? I don't recall that. All I recall is Tenpenny going on about how Megaton is an eyesore like Savage said. Burke being the evil Smithers of Fallout 3 on his own decided to blow up Megaton.

If you said "I hate my neighbour because he doesn't take care of his house" and then I went out and killed him so you wouldn't have to deal with him anymore. Would you be just as guilty a me?

He would if he stood by and watched you kill the man, cheered while you did it, and then congratulated you on a job well done. Which is exactly what Tenpenny does. The LW even calls him out on it.

"I've been wondering Mr. Tenpenny, why blow up Megaton?"

Tenpenny is fully aware of what he has caused. Legally that's at least accessory to murder, and morally he would be just as wrong as if he had plunged the knife into the man in my opinion.

Why are we defending Tenpenny like he didn't know Burke was going to blow up the town? I could see the argument being made if, when Burke blew up Megaton, Tenpenny had stood up and shouted "What the [censored] Burke? The hell were you thinking?" and clearly hadn't wanted the event to occur, then I could see the reasoning behind it.

However, Tenpenny sits back, sips a glass of scotch, and enjoys the show. The man's a lunatic and a sociopath. He has absolutely no reasoning behind what he does other than just to watch people get killed.

Good point

Still it doesnt matter, he knows of Burkes plan, and he doesnt care when he does it, he is actually happy. So he is obviously evil how can anyone deny that?
Exactly, but people still feel better if they consider him good just cause they would like to hear he′s story.
Didnt you just disagree earlier?

Of course, and I agree. But it's just that I argue with R.J. and people like him who just "I always kill him and everyone who are evil, because since they are evil I am not interested in their side of the story. I just kill them straight away". It's those people who can't sympathize with the Enclave, which I can, but I don't agree with the Enclave just like I don't agree with Tennpenny. I am just interested in their story, why they are considered evil, are all of them evil, do they think they do evil, are there any exceptions, morals, all that. That is what makes Enclave interesting and something many want to know more of. Why? Because they are deep, they've got underlying motives and a rich history (and according to others, the cool loot). And this is what I am arguing, that Tenpenny lacks this and it makes him uninteresting, so of course people just kill him without second thought or bothering to learn anything about him because Bethesda didn't put in anything to learn about him except he's a sociopathic old englishman, and no one cares if he dies. He's supposed to be influental or something in the wasteland, but he really isn't. Even when I try to RP an evil character, I don't have any interest of him.

You think you know me but you dont. I do care, but if they are evil they need to die, no matter the reasons. I did hear Caesar out, cause many good people supported he′s case on the forums, and i still think that no matter what, the goal doesnt justify what you do to achieve the goal, sure in war you must do everything to win, nuke or whatever, but enslaving people and treating women like dirt is wrong, even killing he′s own troopers FOR THA LULZ

Does someone elses view of the world give you the right to kill them? Tenpenny probably doesn't see himself as evil(but since he isn't introduced well we can't know that), it's you(and most of the world i'd guess) that see him as an evil man. But that doesn't justify taking his life and other, milder measures to contain his influence in the world are possible(such as imprisonment or if we look at it game mechanicly, you can just steal his sniper rifle and refuse to blow up megaton).

I agree of course, I just don't feel that Tenpenny is on the same level of "evil" (if we use that term) as the Enclave. The Enclave at least have a purpose behind what they do, and you can (and I certainly have) seen the logic behind, say, Eden's plan.

Tenpenny however, has no logic or purpose behind what he does. Nothing other than "I don't like that town, it'd be fun if someone blew it up."


And who gets to decide whether they are evil are not? You?

Judge, Jury, and executioner eh? That's a slippery slope.

Dude how can u not consider him evil if he wants Megaton, which is a town filled with normal people just trying to survive, gone? He is clearly evil. If you help him, you are evil, cause you are picking the evil path.
First of all, [censored] the Enclave. Second, he is evil if he does evil things, like paying a dude for blowing up a normal town.

So what is "evil things." Once again, who gets to decide that?

I guarantee my definition of evil is quite different from yours.


Great. Got that off your chest, congrats.

Moving on.

Of course, because Bethesda made him like that. No way he'd be any close to the Enclave in his... "kind of evil" or even depth, but he didn't have to be as flat as he was.


@R.J., killing people is wrong, right? Tenpenny want people harm, that is evil. You want people harm, but that isn't evil because...? Those you kill you consider "evil"? What gives you the right? Wouldn't the best way be to tell Lucas to arrest Burke, then of course save Lucas' ass when Burke draws gun (that kill is self-defence, it's justified), then Tenpenny will no longer be a threat to anyone so he needn't to die, right? He still wanted people dead, but he won't kill anyone. It's just like when I daydream of killing people I hate, does that make me evil? I won't kill them, right? You can then solve his little ghoul issue peacefully, which Tenpenny by the way had no opinion on, it was the inhabitants of the tower that wanted all the ghouls dead (are they evil? They basically wanted an entire population dead.)

The solution wouldn't be to kill him because you know that if you had been evil and helped him and Burke, then he would be guilty of mass murder, but since you are playing a good guy, he's not guilty of mass murder right? And if this situation was real life, and you're good, you wouldn't even know that he's evil the first time you meet him, because you would never have accepted Burke's offer.

What peple can't change their minds when given a persuasive argument? I forgot that Tenpenny was happy about Megaton being destroyed and thanking Burke.

All of this also begs the question as to why Burke needed the LW to plant the fusion charge in the first place.

Seems to me to indicate that Burke didn't want the blood on his hands. The fact that he makes you pull the trigger is just further proof.


Agreed.