Hes trying to adapt his own belief of what a god is over TES universe. This sounds more like an argument with a fanatic pastor over the game, where he is telling you this game is a lie because is full of false idols and not the true and only God... could you win that?

Layla = CHIMNo it isn't, a rock isn't a god, a rock worshipped by a large group of people can be considered a god.

If definitions don't cut it (despite them being used for several millennia in this context), let's try etymology.

Since the word god comes from an Indo-European root, most commonly referred to as *gudan in Proto-Germanic and *gutom in proto-Indo-European; and that we have very extensive knowledge about a whole host of Indo-European pantheons, none of which have omni-whatever characteristics but rather an assortment of fairly antropomorphised and flawed beings usually governed by a sky-god.
And since the modern omni-*** interpretation of deity has its roots in a Semitic and larger Afroasiatic tradition, I would rather posit that culturally and historically the term god does not apply to the Abrahamitic deity.

No, it's not.

That's one popular description of certain gods, but most gods believed in by most people throughout time don't fit one or more of those definitions.

A god is a being who is worshiped by mortals and is associated typically with life or death or some other natural phenomenon. Sometimes a god is an elevated culture hero. That's pretty much the criteria for a god.

I'm going to go ahead and call shenanigans on this thread. OP is trolling us with a strict Abrahamic idea of god.

Let's talk about the whole 'Talos god' thing.

By everyone's definition a god is really just a title that can be given to anything.

The being with the title doesn't need to be strong, smart, or unique.

It really doesn't mean anything.

The Stormcloaks worship Talos as their god.

What exactly does this mean?

Is it their way of just saying "He's an alright guy" or "He's my hero"

Why do they fight and die to worship Talos?

To maintain the belief that he was a great man?

The title of god by everyone's definition doesn't hold much value or weight.

There's no difference in him being a man or a god.

It's all the same right?

http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Blood_of_the_Divines

http://uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Wulf

http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:The_Blessing_of_Talos

http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Wayshrines

http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Shrine_of_Talos

http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Letter_from_a_Friend

In some real-world religions and the in-game belief in CHIM, that is the case, yes.


In the real world, that depends on how you think that works. In TES, yes, belief feeds back on reality and makes itself true.

Look, think of it this way. before Abrahamic religions came to power a god was an anthropomorphic personification of natural forces. Powerful, yes, and able to be staved off but never truly stopped short of destroying the part of the universe that it was. A good example is Norse Ragnarok. The gods die, and in the process the universe itself is destroyed because the gods are representations of parts of the universe. It's no coincidence that after the death of Balder everything is grimdark and melancholy. In TES, Talos is the representation of heroism and the human spirit, Akatosh is himself Time, Mehrunes Dagon is in fact destruction.

But really, you are using a specific proper noun (God) and trying to apply that definition to a general noun (god), and seem to be getting a little upset that we're pointing that out to you, moving the goalposts when it suits you, pretending people didn't post counter-arguments and using several other logical fallacies.

So if someone in the world of TES can gather a bunch of people and have them worship him, he'll be able to grant them mysterious powers after he's dead?

Yes. Sometimes several of him will do so, even, if enough people worship different aspects of his personality or actions.

Go read some Joseph Campbell books then come back. However, you definitely strike me as having an opinion so strong that no matter what anyone says it'll be wrong unless it supports that, so I'm not sure what good it'll do. You're in a trap of your own devising, locking your brain in one place like that.

Talos was accepted by the Divines iirc.

Mannimarco is another once mortal now god isn't he?

Yes.

Though you'd probably also have to convince the Universe that said person being worshiped is a god as well.

http://www.thequestforawesome.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/facepalm.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/89598a218da9fecb96f0a9f9b575c3b1/tumblr_mfp8971y771qclwico1_400.jpg

Well then let's flip this script. Where do you get your definition of what a god is, since apparently ours are invalidated by not being from the source that says what yours is? We're just using actual sources from real-world philosophical texts and dictionaries plus the works of the writer's of the games lore. What are you using?

To be fair i think you have to be somewhat divine to gain godhood in tes. you need the heart of a space god, or a giant stompy robot to achieve godhood. (although i'd like to hear other examples) Also aren't the only people to be CHIMsters gods already (talos, vehk).

Also i don't think you all are going to convince the accountant, he seems to have a very strict view of the word god.

Seems to me like you're trying to fit World of Warcraft's uber-powerful raid final boss definition of "god" into TES here.

No.

Like I said, his brain is in a trap of his own making. His opinion is made, all the evidence against it is plainly wrong by virtue of being against it. I've been around the internet a few times, we've all been here before and remember when this will be again.

To summarize: My definition of a God is the right one, despite centuries of god being discussed in philosophical debates since men stopped climbing trees like monkeys.


mmkay.

Hasn't that always been the case with the believers My definition of God is better than yours....If you don't agree I'm either gonna argue with you or wage war on you.....
As for the OP,Talos is a god whether you like it or not,the Daedra are sort of Anti-Gods but they are God like Beings nonetheless.

What's with the personal attacks?

When did I say "My definition of God is better than yours....If you don't agree I'm either gonna argue with you or wage war on you"

I didn't even state my religious beliefs yet get bombarded with insults about them.

Oh,Just agreeing with Hevnoraak on the Human condition when it comes to religion.....Not to you specifically as I have stated My second line was for you the Original Poster(OP).

This is better left closed.