This brings up an interesting point which I have taken notice of with Skyrim: How does anyone even know the Aedra, the Divines, even exist?

I should have seen it in Morrowind, with all it's sub-text about religion in real life through the Tribunal. You eventually come to find that these "Gods," the Tribunal, are not really Gods at all; just extremely powerful mortals. One of which was dead, but no one knows about it. The Divines may be something akin to that. Perhaps they still exist, but perhaps they are long since dead. After all, only the Daedra are immortal. The Aedra are not; which is why they believe in stasis and permanency.

There have been atheists on the elder scrolls world.

Elsa God-Hater comes to mind.

We know Akatosh exists as his Avatar appears in Oblivion and his children (the dragons) all reference him as their father. Also like the Deadra, the Aedra do have artifacts but Martin Septim was unaware of them, they're collected in the Knights of the Nine story (notably Talos doesn't have an artifact as he isn't an Aedra, instead the Knight of the Nine gains a magical power/blessing from Talos instead).

@Guard

Elsa God-Hater was a worshiper of Mehrunes Dagon.

It could be argued that when Martin become Akatosh's avatar, it was merely a spell created with the act of destroying the Amulet of Kings. And even if there are artifacts, it doesn't prove that their creators are still alive.

That's true, she never doubted the Daedric Princes, only the nine divines.

Misotheist describes her better, but she worshipped Mehrunes Dagon so her opinion is biased against the Divines in th first place.

You are only Dovahkiin because Akatosh gave you his blessing when Alduin came back. He couldn't exactly do this if he was dead.

There is no good or evil to the Daedric Lords. They personify the different capabilities of man, mer and beast, although any morality they have, which they actually don't, is totally alien to the residents and occupiers of Nirn. Dagon is no more good or evil than Azura.

I enjoy thinking of the Daedra as Safe and Not-so-Safe.
Good and bad are weird words; the Daedra/Divines are as personified as those rambunctious Greek Olympians.

Some proto-gods just didn't like Lorkhan's instrumentality project, I suppose. I'm sure that some were wise enough to see through the "trap," like Azura and Boethiah. Others probably didn't have the proper ... disposition ... to accept the idea at face value. Molag Bal. Mehrunes Dagon.

Afterall, according to the Cyrodiils, Mundus was supposed to be a place where the gods could "make sacrifices, take responsibilities, become parents, rear children. Loveheartlovelyhearts." I'm very sure to some that Sacrifice sounded like a bad idea. Others just thought that Love Is Stupid.

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And then there were the Divines who were either tricked (Akatosh didn't take it so well) or honestly thought Love, Mundus, and Chocolates might have been a good idea (Mara? Kynareth?).

Basically this.

Problem is that the op is trying to understand the Tamrielic pantheon from a Good/Evil monotheistic view, where it's far more complex than that, and closer to the politheistic Greek-Roman pantheon.

Long story made short....you'd also piss off mortals if you were a bored inmortal yourself... xD

From that book :rolleyes: The Monomyth:

Edit: Shezarr is the Cyrodiilic version of Lorkhan

Cyrodiilic "Shezarr's Song"

"This was a new thing that Shezarr described to the Gods, becoming mothers and fathers, being responsible, and making great sacrifices, with no guarantee of success, but Shezarr spoke beautifully to them, and moved them beyond mystery and tears. Thus the Aedra gave free birth to the world, the beasts, and the beings, making these things from parts of themselves. This free birth was very painful, and afterwards the Aedra were no longer young, and strong, and powerful, as they had been from the beginning of days.

"Some Aedra were disappointed and bitter in their loss, and angry with Shezarr, and with all creation, for they felt Shezarr had lied and tricked them. These Aedra, the Gods of the Aldmer, led by Auri-El, were disgusted by their enfeebled selves, and by what they had created. 'Everything is spoiled, for now, and for all time, and the most we can do is teach the Elven Races to suffer nobly, with dignity, and chastise ourselves for our folly, and avenge ourselves upon Shezarr and his allies.' Thus are the Gods of the Elves dark and brooding, and thus are the Elves ever dissatisfied with mortality, and always proud and stoic despite the harshness of this cruel and indifferent world.

"Other Aedra looked upon creation, and were well pleased. These Aedra, the Gods of Men and Beast Folk, led by Akatosh, praised and cherished their wards, the Mortal Races. 'We have suffered, and are diminished, for all time, but the mortal world we have made is glorious, filling our hearts and spirits with hope. Let us teach the Mortal Races to live well, to cherish beauty and honor, and to love one another as we love them.' Thus are the Gods of Men tender and patient, and thus are Men and Beast Folk great in heart for joy or suffering, and ambitious for greater wisdom and a better world.

"Now when the Daedra Lords heard Shezarr, they mocked him, and the other Aedra. 'Cut parts of ourselves off? And lose them? Forever? That's stupid! You'll be sorry! We are far smarter than you, for we will create a new world out of ourselves, but we will not cut it off, or let it mock us, but we will make this world within ourselves, forever ours, and under our complete control.'

"So the Daedra Lords created the Daedric Realms, and all the ranks of Lesser Daedra, great and small. And, for the most part, the Daedra Lords were well pleased with this arrangement, for they always had worshippers and servants and playthings close to hand. But, at the same time, they sometimes looked with envy upon the Mortal Realms, for though mortals were foul and feeble and contemptible, their passions and ambitions were also far more surprising and entertaining than the antics of the Lesser Daedra. Thus do the Daedra Lords court and seduce certain amusing specimens of the Mortal Races, especially the passionate and powerful. It gives the Daedra Lords special pleasure to steal away from Shezarr and the Aedra the greatest and most ambitious mortals. 'Not only are you fools to mutilate yourselves,' gloat the Daedra Lords, 'But you cannot even keep the best pieces, which prefer the glory and power of the Daedra Lords to the feeble vulgarity of the mush-minded Aedra.'"

Just one word.

WISE.

Ah, we're finally in the Lore forum :celebration:

Azura is seen as the least evil of the daedra. That doesn't change its/hers nature.

Ignorant village folk hear stories, and automatically say that Deadra are evil.

Here's two books to help, http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-doors-oblivion, http://www.imperial-library.info/content/imperial-census-daedra-lords.

Now, with the princes, they are the concept they embody. The only difference between them and aedra, is that the daedra chose not to sacrifice a part of themselves to create Mundus, whereas the Aedra did. Also, it's more accurate to say they're safe and unsafe, as qrsComplex said. There are those who are more destructive than others, but in the end, they really don't care about mortals, just that they're fun to screw around with, and the not so obvious destruction (like Azura with Morrowind, and Merida with Umharil)

If this porridge isn't hot, OR cold, then WTH is it?

Lukewarm.

I just never understood fictional tales with a bunch of gods that all represent something. What is their purpose? Do they just exist with one thing on their eternal mind? Are they responsible for the existence of their personal trait in the mortal world? If so, why is there no god of honor, or hate, or friendship? It just doesn't make sense... much like real-world religion.

Stendarr

Namira(?)/Dagon(?)/Boethiah(?) --- Each might be said to 'hate' in hir own way

Mara/Dibella ("friendship" with benefits)/Zenithar (business partnership, but you get the idea)




The main gods all fill major concepts, and all the things related to them. It doesn't really have to be that complicated.

You need to study up some more, bud. What I read are words of someone ignorant.

Read the texts, and digest the information. Don't cheat and use summaries, for you'll only render your knowledge incomplete at best.

I'm sure that the Redguards have at least ten gods for different sorts of friendships, and even more for different sorts of honor.

10? That must be a very conservative estimate, and taking only the mainstream deities into account.

But in the Nord Culture/Religion Akatosh IS Alduin.

I'd say it's closer to say that the Dovahkiin is Shor (Shezarr/Lorkhan) walking on the world once again.

I'd say that TES Lore is really confusing...

I'd say that Talos rules.