TESV: (not really)

You start out imprisoned by an altmer. You can't remember your past. You don't know what he's been doing to you. You bust out as usual.

The first time you die, you find yourself in a strange realm instead of at a load screen. You fight your way through it or find your way through it and come out at a daedric shrine or something. Eventually you find out that you aren't actually who you think you are. You're a daedra that took whatever form you're in and then was bound to Tamriel by the altmer that had you imprisoned at the start. Queue long, winding path through the adventure, involving a lot of daedric manipulations and you trying to decide where your allegiances lie.

Oh, for the sake of Peter, stop making crap up Qawsed. The lore does not make it impossible to play damned daedra. There are TONS of loopholes, even Thatoneguy acknowledges them! His continued point was that there were reasons, relating to potential reactions of other NPCs that would make it unfeasible. He specifically said it was far from impossible, but even if he had not said as much, the evidence that it is FAR FROM IMPOSSIBLE is AMPLE. You are just being obnoxious, ya understand. Just because you say something is impossible does not make it so. In a game set after Oblivion it would be possible, merely unlikely. In a game set in an earlier age of Mundus, First Era, Merethic or Dawn it would not only be possible but highly probable. If you have a constructive argument regarding that, say it and be done. If, on the other hand, you merely want to heckle me for not adhereing to your vision of how The Elder Scrolls universe has to operate at all times, spare me the pontifications.

Bless you prowler and Thank you. That link is a keeper.. . . In fact, so much so. . .


bliviongate: :celebration: :rock: bliviongate: :chaos:
The Imperial Census of Daedra Lords" by the Imperial Geographic Survey. This version of the Census was written before Uriel VII's demise, and is contemporary with the current Pocketguide.

Enjoy.

-MK

***
The Imperial Census of Daedra Lords
Azura, Lord of Dusk and Dawn, maintains the domain of Moonshadow, a twilight country of shades and half-thoughts. Visitors to this isle have historically come mainly from the Dunmer of eastern Morrowind and the catfolk of Elsweyr, whose people both hold a great affection for the mother of immanence, though by separate roads. At the time of this writing, regular gateways to Moonshadow have been inaccessible for the last several years. Whether this has to do with the unlawful incidents at Hogithum Hall in the Capital City or mere whim of Azura herself, no one can say. Of course, Azura's most famous acts of recent times is the Incarnation of the Nerevarine, a subject that while far beyond the scope of this pamphlet has been felt to the present day.

Boethiah, the so-called Prince of Plots, has renamed his country of labyrinthine policy and betrayals yet again. Formerly "Snake Mount", Prince Boethiah's maze gardens and twisted towers is called "Attribution's Share", a realm best avoided by those that live outside the arcano-politic. Boethiah, like his cohort Azura, is much revered by the followers of the former Tribunal Temple, but sub-cults of his are entrenched in nearly every terrestrial seat of governance. His traditional festival date is the 2nd of Sun's Dusk, when many contracts are writ between kings and commoners alike.

Clavicus Vile, child-god of the Morningstar, bestows a strange tranquility to his lands that seem concordant to his spheres of mockery and oath breaking, though what shape such concepts might take is admittedly unfathomable. Perhaps by rendering his domains as idyllic countryside the Prince exemplifies his greatest aspect, and that which ingratiates him to his many followers, the power of serenity through wish fulfillment. Only the strongest of the Emperor's servants are advised to make covenant with Prince Clavicus, and even then are warned against sipping from the Bitter Cup.

Hermaeus Mora, "the Gardener of Men", claims that he is one of the oldest Princes, born of thrown-away ideas used during the creation of mortality in the Mundus. Imperial Mananauts have verified that his influence on fate and time is real and unfeigned, implications of which tie this Prince directly with Akatosh, chief of the Nine Divines. Since Akatosh is the prime temporal spirit whose appearance led to the formation of the world, perhaps Hermaeus Mora speaks the truth. Nevertheless, it is the will of His Majesty Uriel VII that only on the official holiday of 5th First Seed should any propitiation to this Daedric Prince be delivered. "All else is mutation."

Hircine's Hunting Grounds have been closed by consensus of the Elder Council until further notice. It is mentioned here only for the sake of completeness.

Malacath holds the hardest to access of Oblivion's extant lands, the Ashpit. As Prince Patron of the disenfranchised and cast out, it is only reasonable that the pathways to his domain take on a characteristic level of concealment. Orsinium, kingdom of the Orcs, gives Malacath its highest esteem, which is surprising when one considers the normal Orcish revilement of Daedric spirits. One might conjecture then that the rumors of Malacath not being a true Daedroth but an imprisoned aetherial spirit are true. It would certainly fit the Prince of Exile that he be one himself.

Mehrunes Dagon, Lord of Razors, has proven himself time and again the enemy of the Empire. Of terrible aspect and crowned in beaten copper, the four-armed Prince of Destruction has troubled the borders of the Mundus with warfare, foul rumor, and force of arms. Banished to dissolution during the Weir Gate massacre and again at Kvatch by battlemages of the 33rd, Mehrunes Dagon is returned to Oblivion once more, and the stars have foretold that his tenacity has known no forfeiture. All heroes of Cyrodiil are called upon to stand vigil against his hidden agencies.

Mephala's domains in Oblivion are numerous and obscured, collected together by vast strands of magical ghostweb. All of them are devoted to her spheres of six and secret murder. Echoing this same structure are the various esoteric cults devoted to her across Tamriel, many of which are forbidden by Imperial law. Her aspect is shrouded and manifold, even when she appears in the crowds that gather within her temples during Frost Fall.

Meridia's holdings in Oblivion are collectively known as "The Colored Rooms". Another Prince whose origins may not entirely be outside of the aetherial, Meridia has at several times been linked to Magnus the Sun. The most famous account of this association is the Tract of Merid-nunda, which overtly casts Meridia in the role of a wayward solar daughter, cast from the heavens for consorting with illicit spectra.

Molag Bal, King of Strife, is second only to his brother Prince Mehrunes Dagon in the enmity of our Emperor. His lands are the charnel houses the slave pens of Coldharbour, which hold no contrition for those travelers that visit them in error or purpose. That Molag Bal is allowed his holiday at all hearkens back to a treaty of ancient times, when he reputedly lent his infernal power to the creation of the first soulgems.

Namira's Scuttling Void has been closed by consensus of the Elder Council until further notice. It is mentioned here only for the sake of completeness.

Nocturnal is accorded the title Ur-dra by nearly all the Royalty of Oblivion. As the mother of night, she claims to be an aspect of the original Void itself, and it is generally deemed best to fortify this declaration in one's evening prayers.

Peryite's pits have always been inaccessible to mortals. Our only real knowledge of them comes from reports of the other diabolical Princes. It is said that Peryite guards the lowest orders of Oblivion and that his summoners are to regard his likeness to Akatosh as some primordial and curious jest.

Sanguine, Prince of Hedonism, lords over no less than ten times ten thousand pleasure pockets of the Void. As revelry and drunken stupor fall under this Prince's influence, he has been a favorite of many Emperors since the first foundation. Records even indicate that he resided in White-Gold Tower during the reign of Reman Cyrodiil and helped in the somewhat dubious draftsmanship of the Crendali Festivals, whose vulgarities did little to help Imperial expansion into Alinor and the other Summersets.

Sheogorath's Asylums have been closed by consensus of the Elder Council until further notice. It is mentioned here only for the sake of completeness.

Vaernima, Prince of Omen and Dream, shares a special mageographic connection with the Mundus, since mortal sleepers often slip into her realm without any help at all. Traditional sacrifice to Vaernima is held on the 10th of Suns Height, but as with most luck spirits, prayers to this Daedric Prince occur quite frequently, and not always before bedtime.


bliviongate: :trophy: :read: :grad: bliviongate:


There. Thank you Prowler, again and sincerely. I hope that the future games at least allow some limited access to the Daedric Realms. . . so much better than just the stupid talking statue. lol. Thereby lore questions might be posed to them directly.

Eh, obnoxious? Ya still typing in ya aggression with bold, just let ya know.

I just pointing out that thanks to the event of Oblivion Crisis, their chance is slim to none in Mundus.

If the game take place in Oblivion, then its a given, but I doubt that it would take place there until way later in the future.

The series of TES tend to go forward in their installment, not backward, just to keep the past a mystery.

"Sanguine, Prince of Hedonism, lords over no less than ten times ten thousand pleasure pockets of the Void. As revelry and drunken stupor fall under this Prince's influence, he has been a favorite of many Emperors since the first foundation. Records even indicate that he resided in White-Gold Tower during the reign of Reman Cyrodiil and helped in the somewhat dubious draftsmanship of the Crendali Festivals, whose vulgarities did little to help Imperial expansion into Alinor and the other Summersets. "

You know, the more I contemplate this the better it gets. Is there any knowledge of what the "records" are. . . And if not I sure hope upcoming in game lore fills in the blanks.

:grad:

Qawsed there is no guarantee that tes 5 will go forward, there are a couple of obscurities in the past and it wouldn't be the first time that a game series intentionally leaves obscurities so that they may be filled out later. In fact i don't think there is any guarantee that it will be on nirn or mundus in the first place for that matter.

A great part of lore is speculation, the elder scrolls themselves are open to interpretation and that intrepretation in turn undergoes further studies, interpretation and speculation. The elder scrolls have never been clear nor to the point, what you say about it being impossible is itself an impossibility because TES just isn't like that, TES is about all the different ways that you can look at something.

What i'm trying to say is neither falsifying your opinion nor denying you the freedom of expression nor speech, but you shouldn't deny another their freedom to speculate. Let's bury the hatchet and just forget this entire argument, you and ainur both have the freedom to interpret and speculate, but lets not say other people are wrong because their ideas don't match ours OK :tops:

Now i have a question, anybody care to explain why sheogorath, hircine and namira are all barely mentioned in the imperial census?

Beth has said that the TES:# series will move forward, not backwards, in the timeline of TES history. Anything that deals with past events would be a spin off from the main line of games, like Reguard and Battlespire. Now, what Qawsed Asap keeps saying is that you just won't be able to play daedra in the main series, unless one day you play a daedroth somewhere in Oblivion. Playing one in a spinoff is possible, as long as it doesn't deal with Mundus, or deals with it in a very limited matter.

As to why Sheo, Hiricine, and Namira were barely mentioned was that the Mages Guild does not want to go there, so as they said it was they were mentioned for the sake of completeness

Yes i understand what they wrote, but what i don't get is why, why did they skip those parts, was there anything special in the context of the time it was written that caused them to be skipped?

Most likely answer, the creative juices just were not flowing when they were writing that, or didn't want something solidified quite yet in those areas. Lore reason, no interest or too dangerous

Of course that assumes, among many other things, is that Mundus will be blessed or cursed with eternal stasis. That at no point will an event ever occur which will alter the current state of affairs between Mundus and Oblivion. Yet that state of affairs only came into being at well into the First Era, and has been challanged twice in Era three, once to the extent of a full invasion of all Tameriel. The Merethic age alone is significantly longer than the Second and Third Era combined. The Merethic and First Era together comprise near to two thirds of Nirn's history. . . and during those periods the state of Fluidity between Mundus and Oblivion was far more liberal than it became after the interferrence of Akatosh. . . which clearly had limitations, as evinced by the most recent Oblivion Crisis. The Princes remain, and who can speak for their varied policies, plans and agenda. . . and if the rumours are true, Mehrunes Dagon is far from the mightiest and cleverest among the Princes. To say that the denizens of Oblivion will never again find a way to rear their heads in Nirn, (even aside from the fairly common occourance of Daedra being bound to Nirn, some of whom are bound improperly and run amok, others of whom outlive those who summoned them, even without turning on and eating them) is to essentially ignore not only the contiuning machinations of Mehrunes Dagon, but to virtually ignore the existence of Molag Baal, Hircine, Sheogorath, Mephala, Boethiah, Meridia, Clavicus Vile and the other Princes. It really assumes alot, and a great deal more than logic or lore can soundly support.

Goodness, having read through all this thread, it is a right mess and is staying closed. Yes, I moved it here in the first place and it was the right decision to do so. However, with all the flaming that has gone on which rather shows an inability by some members to discuss the subject constructively and without name calling, the best action is ----- *click*