yes i do belive that you should on shot kill someone but only by getting a perk at the highest level.

They should make a specific game mode for this that can be turned on or off, similar to hardcoe mode.

Make it a mode where damage to humans is made more realistic, including the player character himself. Leave Deathclaws/Power armor targets/Super Mutants the same though. Dunno what would be considered "realistic" with Cazadors and giant scorpions.

Personally Gunny, I would change other stats than the damage for most uniques.
I.E make them unique by ramping up their already unique stats.
Lucky greater critical chance and critical damage.
That gun make it more like a sawn off rifle.
This machine is unique already.
Better RoF for All american ( or make it full auto even ).
Just my view on this.

That would be my take on it. Although another option would be to give them some other advantage other than dmg. Like a slightly increased crit multiplier or whatever else there might be. Notice I say slightly. Slight increase to rate of fire could work too, but that's just another way to increase dmg. (or rather, dps) I suppose.

...sounds like some good stuff. I'd probably love it in combo with the less-chaotic versions of the increased spawns mod.

Definitely keep the AMR's DAM at 338.

As for the uniques, I would not give them extra DAM, instead have them do more DPS (higher ROF), and more accuracy.
My reasoning- if they are unique, they may have had a gunsmith improve their accuracy, or give them an action job.

The one exception may be Lucky, it comes with the long barrel mod pre-installed.(which a longer barrel would grant it improved accuracy as well as extra DAM)

OK. Looks like the easy way is out. I'l really gonna need more beer for all this work. Have I got enough cigars? Check. OK, off to the supermarket....... :bolt:

-Gunny wondering just how much he's gotten himself into.............

:rofl: Have one on us lazy gits.
I've half a mind of offering help, but as it's the half I use to sleep with maybe not.

Seeing all our replies quoted one after another like that made me chuckle. Great minds (or lazy ones...) think alike!

About half a case of beer is what you got yourself into...lol

Hell, I don't mind. Either I play the game and [censored] about the guns or do something about them. Time to put my spreadsheet where my mouth is, so to speak. Plus, just when you think you know alot about something, you can learn some more. Researching firearms never gets dull for me. Makes me kinda wish they'd put in some historical background on more NV weapons like they did in FO3.

-Gunny really going to the store now. Seriously. I am. Now. No, now. Ok. I'm going...........

I think it's too much. A DAM of 338 would let you one-shot anything in the game with a sneak attack crit. Given the state of the AI (not your fault, but such a mod should take it into account), I think such a powerful weapon would essentially break the game.



I'd disagree with some of the others: I don't see anything wrong with increasing the DAM on the unique weapons. That being said, you could also increase the item's HP, increase the weapons critical multiplier and/or decrease the AP cost in VATS as well, stats that are just as important as spread and rate-of-fire in my opinion.

I almost had a complete catastrophe. They didn't have any dark beer. I had to go to another store. The tribulations I must endure in the name of SCIENCTIFIC! effort. Luckily they had a 12 of Beck's Dark. I'm good. :celebration:


I also think it would imbalance things without severely limiting how much ammo you get. How powerful should it be? Or more correctly, what should you NOT be able to kill with a sneak headshot? Or even straight up, no crits?

I think I'll look at increasing damage where there's a reason to. ie: if the unique has a longer barrel, then TADA! it gets more damage. Tuning the uniques will take some finesse. Marines aren't know for finesses. :hubbahubba:

-Gunny headed to the garage, laptop, beer and cigar in hand (or mouth, as specified.)

Eh.

Sometimes it's realistic and sometimes it's not.

Realistic: Someone taking a couple 5.56 rounds to the chest and still living.


Unrealistic: Someone being shot in the head with a .50 cal and living.

But good thing we have mods to fix these sort of things.

You could drop chances of criticals or critical damage on non uniques.
With their base damage going up, the head damage bonus and the magic bullet effect of sneak criticals is needed less, ( not too sure about this though tbh ).

That's exactly the point. If I shoot something with a .50 cal... in or out of sneak mode - I had better be seeing little red bits of what used to be my target through the scope.
To "balance" the game - simply reduce the amount of available .50 cal ammo. Problem solved.

This is an RPG - your stickler for realism does not apply. Case in point, why don't we take realism all the way and actually impose realistic movement/payload penalties on the player if he's carrying an AMR? Realistically, there's no way for anyone to be trekking around the Mojave with an AMR+ammo, with body armor, water, some first aid supplies and a small armory of other weapons as well.

Weight is one consideration - realistically, space is a factor as well. All those weapons take up space, and if you're carrying an AMR, you're only going to have enough space for a single sidearm, not a small armory that Fallout currently permits players to do.

Furthermore, to effectively employ a 30lb AMR, the sniper should be prone. Standing/crouched shots should be useless.

IMO, .46ACP mod should be about using realistic values/characteristics of firearms to BALANCE the weapons in Fallout. Obviously this is .46ACP's mod so he can do whatever he wants, but I personally feel (and this is all my opinion) that the gameplay and balancing that currently exists in the game should be supplemented by realism, not completely supplanted by it.

An AMR with a base DAM of 338 would allow players to one-shot Legate Lanius and the Legendary Deathclaw. At most, it would take 3 shots - given a 2 second reload time, a battle with either of these enemies would be over in 6 seconds. Less than 6 seconds with headshots and more than 6 seconds if the player misses. The battle would last exactly 0 seconds if the player scores a sneak attack critical, it doesn't even have to be a headshot.

How is that balanced/challenging/fun?

Actually, we can balance the 338 DMG AMR with a rate of fire of 1 shot per 7 sec, so it still have the same DPS as it is now.

So, in order to retain a "realistic" DAM of 338, we have to impose an "unrealistic" 7 second rate-of-fire limitation to the weapon? How heavy do you think a .50 round is?

To put things in perspective, five seconds (sustained) is about how long I would expect the average loader in an M1A2 Abrams tank to hand-load a 120mm shell. Yes, this is a completely imperfect comparison, but it does put things in perspective - seven seconds is an eternity when engaged in combat, and I find it highly unlikely that the M256 would have a higher ROF than a sniper rifle.

Furthermore, even if the one attack per seven seconds limitation was legitimate, what's to stop the player from shooting the AMR, switching weapons then switching back, then shooting the AMR again?

One last thing: I was not talking about DPS. A weapon's DPS is a non-factor when we are considering critical attacks, sneaking or otherwise. Decreasing ROF to 1/7 attacks/sec isn't going to change the fact that a character with high sneak using a 338 DAM'ing AMR is essentially death incarnate. Don't have high sneak? That's what stealth boys are for. That's an *instant* solution, in any battle against any foe at any difficulty. Assuming a sneak attack crit multiplier of 6, the AMR would do 2028 DAM with 338 base damage.

Give it a crit damage of 0?

And I though Abrams use auto-loader.

Why?



No.

Actually Mudhen I impose inventory limitation on myself. For realism. Because I can.

If you think my opinion on realism doesn't count - then you can turn off hardcoe mode and go back to casual gaming...for the rest of us,
lets make hardcoe mode as realistic as possible.

I usually only carry 1, 2 long guns at the max, and 1-2 sidearms + a knife.
I prefer light to medium armor, and carry no more then 5 waters/food items at a time.

I normally don't push these limitations on people... but telling someone their opinion on realism doesn't count,
because you like a more casual feel- has no place.

BTW I don't shoot from the hip - I always access the sights, mostly staying stationary while doing so.

As for 338 DAM on the AMR - if you don't like it, don't use it. Game "balance" instead of realism is what got the sniper rifle nerfed in the first place.
Because a few power gamers couldn't use it for its intended purpose, then complained it was overpowered and ruined a perfectly good gun for the rest of us.

And that is that.

Please, you don't have get upset because I told you that it's not realistic to have a "realistic" 338 DAM while not suffering the realistic penalties that carrying a 30lb AMR would impose. It's not that your idea of realism doesn't count - it's the fact that you pick and choose what is realistic and what doesn't have to be.

You also don't have to cherry pick things I say to argue against them out of context.

Furthermore, if you think carrying an AMR (plus ammo), maybe another two handed rifle (+ammo), another 1-2 side arms (ammo), a combat knife and other supplies is a "realistic" Mojave exploration loadout, well...your character is realistically an uber-mensch then.

I see three distinct options here:

A) Remove the weapon from the game. If the weapon, as modeled per real life stats, is too powerful for the rest of the game, then one option would be to remove it. One problem I thought of with using the new higher damage is that NPCs armed with it will become incredibly strong, as they have no ammo limitations, unless I trigger them to use ammo from inventory.

2) Raise the damage to the new realistic figure, and find other ways to balance it's use in game. Removing it from general NPC use and severly limiting ammo would create a "Alien Blaster" effect, whereby you get it, but using it is so painful on resources that you only use it for extremely difficult targets, or, as I sometimes do, forget to use it at all. My Alien Blasters usually occupy a prominent place in my housing of choice, on display, never to be fired.

Other) Leave the weapon in as is, but raise the damage up scaled to what the game can absord without it becoming a spammable "I WIN!" button.



**********To that end, I really would like to hear what enemies you guys think *should* and *shouldn't* be able to be killed with one shot, and then one shot with a sneak crit. I can work the damage backwards easily if I have an idea what it should and shouldn't kill outright.**********



PS (I crunched some serious numbers last night, fueled by the Beck's and my Brazilian cigars, and am close to reasonable spread figures to model real world accuracy. I will work more on them tonight, but just a taste: basing rifle spread on the lowest extant spread, I've got the Sniper unchanged at .020 and the Trail Carbine, the worst accuracy performer for a rifle, at .228. Numbers subject to change. I am also working on the uniques, and have begun to work on rate of fire. Also still tweaking crit damage. As it stands all base weapons have a x .5 crit damage multiplier rather than the x 1 that most weapon have now. I would raise that back up if I can figure out which script in the geck governs the sneak critical multiplier. There are 3 different sneak critical scripts in the geck, and I don't know which, if any, effect that multiplier.)

-Gunny out.

Personally any human if hit the head with a tier 3 weapon or better and a critical, without mods or perks should be on the list.
I know it's not very RPG like, but it comes to a point where RPG in combat fails.

Any mamal or lesser reptilian ( gecko's, canines and night stalkers ) should be on that list as well.
Simple reasoning suggests neither armour or pain supression as traits.

Death claws, two - three shots with a top tier weapon even to the head.
Big game, F.E.V, especially bred for combat, and most likely if FO2 + is to be believed capable of rapid evolution.
Cazadore's, insects typically are harder to kill outright and due to being far more streamlined organisms even decapation is not always an instant kill.
So lots of shots over a single high powered one.

The reason I think .50BMG shouldn't have a crit bonus because it would punch a good chunk of your targets available in NV; crit or not only the toughest would have a chance to survive.

338 is actually a good number without crit bonus; it would bring down whatever "normal" large game you encounter.

I mean even a Deathclaw/Super Mutant shouldn't be able to take more than a round or two. Bosses aside.

And with 0 crit damage, Better Criticals wouldn't come into play.


As for Gunny's options, C seems to be the most realistic. I say give .50 extra x0.25 damage and -20 DT, then dump the gun's rate of fire about 0.5.