- Yes,
unarmored humans shouldn't survive being shot with the AMR.

-Yes but only with all perks, crits and special ammo + sneak attack,
would promote up-and-close stealth play a bit if the silenced .22 pistol could actually kill stuff. It's just too easy to hang back and blast away now.

-No
I finally psyched myself up to kill the legendary deathclaw, and I reduced it to -480ish hp with a brush gun on a psychoed sneak attack. What an anticlimix :/
Oh, also killed the two other deathclaws in the same area in the same VATS sequence.

- Yes
A BoS paladin with a gauss rifle or a veteran ranger with the AMR (or similar opponents) should be able to 1-shot you if hit in the head

Generally, I'd like the game to be a bit more lethal. It would be awesome if npcs were aware enough to snipe you from longer than 30y away.

Try that with a Gauss Rifle with Max Charge and better criticals, it's over 400.

A amr should always destroy human targets.
Not just a 50 cal can blow your head off but that would make the game to easy.

You sir, are a scholar and a gentleman. A paragon of this community. Thanks. So that means sneak crit dam:

(dam + (dam x (better crtis)) + sneak attack 100% + head shot 75%

if dam is 20 then without perks it:
(20 + 20) x 275% = 110 right?

Did I do that correctly?

-Gunny out.

I belive so.
This is the correct forumula for maria actully lol.

ok so a gauss on max charge with 3% lord death, 5% bloody mess and better crits sneak headshot will be:

((180*1.03*1.05) + ((90*1.03*1.05)*1.5))*275%=936.65

Ouch.

Edit: sorry forgot max charge x1.5

Now do the YCS/186. It's overpowered, but that's what you'd expect.

1092.99

Damage is fine.

Play within the rules of the game, use the correct ammo, sneak if you're good at it, use guns bigger than pea shooters.

The player is way too tough they should return to a universal formula for everyone like in the originals.

I agree. At least in hardcoe mode.

I agree, however in FO1 it at least allowed role specific gear still being usefull.
I managed to kill everyone but the starting area vault 13 rats with the Red Ryder and wore leather armour.
Way too powerfull but fun.

In FO2 however the damn scalling of challanges and uber gear being leved placed at later areas made it an equipment hunt.
Where unless you switched out for slightly better guns and armour every area you were weakend instantly.
Leading to a more fps game set up than FO3's actual fps system imo.
However it was fun taking out the wannamingo mine at level 6 with no super weapon or armour.

The player really is not that tough ( at least mine are not ), I die quickly and fairly often if I make a mistake or bite off more than I chew.
Even against 9mm's and lower tier cratures I'll take a bunch of damage.
The problem is player intelligence, you create a strong character to win and when it does you find things are easy.

I agree PC isn't 'that' tough, its just humanoids in Mojave had weak weapons (did you get hit by Fiends with buffed EW?).

I've mods active to that aim.
You start with a higher base health and get quite a bit more per point of endurance. If I recall correctly NPC gain 5 per point while the player get 20. That's an insane amount.

I still say that all they needed was another optional difficulty level that somehow alters, say, the accuracy component & perhaps SPECIAL parameter changes + gives enemies better weapons and whatever else might work. That way you still have the ability to make "weak/non-violent" chrs. who can make it thru the vanilla game no problem, for people who like to do so, you have hardcoe for people who like "reality" and you have a "Nightmare" difficulty that is more than just dmg. reduction+enemy hitpoints etc. for those that want that.

But at any rate, that's why I love my PC. I can do/change stuff, switch back and forth between many options/styles - including the pure vanilla game - when the mood strikes. I've been too lazy to make/test my own severe difficulty mod suited to my own quirky tastes, tho, and haven't found one I liked/fits me.


Hit points in this game are definitely a big factor. Even just 50 extra hitpoints means you're suddenly a much bigger bullet sponge, especially in the early-mid game. I've yet to make a solo chr. with more than 5-6END...defeats the whole purpose of making the game harder. heh But I do like that it can make such a dramatic difference, unlike in some games.

Even if your wearing heavy armor a ranger may get a lucky shot with the AMR and critical your head. That was a big surprise for me on my legion play through. BOOM and my head is everywhere.

PC high health is not the problem by itself, if you want proof try fighting Cazadors in melee and don't bring Antivenom. That 3HP/sec adds up quite quickly even if you have over 300HP at the time, since it's per sting and they will deliver more than one each. That, or take on the Legendary Deathclaw without sneak tactics.

Now, add Power Armor of some kind and perks to that high HP, and you have a character that is really hard to kill. Then, add the fact that the player has access to far better weaponry than almost any opponent and the intelligence to use it properly, and you get PCs being horribly OP compared to the average opposition.

If more opponents carried higher-end gear then there would be a significant increase in combat difficulty. One such example is encountered during a Legion run at the dam: in the final fight in a office area you run into a Veteran wielding an AMR, and that thing hurts, even on torso shots. In fact, he's quite capable of killing PCs, even those in PA, unless you can drop him quickly. Unfortunately for said Veteran, he's alone during that fight and his armor is nowhere near as effective as that which the PC can get, so the usual result is he dies first.

At the beginning of the game it's actually a similar situation, since you have 'starter' equipment and most opposition is dangerous; whether or not it would be good for the whole game to remain that way is another discussion entirely, since it makes sense for a character's progression to be accompanied by actual progress compared to the opposition. Does the PC progress a little too quickly? I'd say yes, however at the same time the fact the PC is expected to be able to take on the most dangerous opposition in the game and likely win must be accounted for, which makes it rather less clear that the PC is gaining too much power.

To more directly address the OP's question/poll: I would say that the damage level is about where it should be, when matching the weapon(s) used to the caliber of opposition faced. In other words, using an AMR against the average Legion or NCR grunt is massive overkill, while using it against Deathclaws is not (especially since they can overkill you if you miss).

DAM is not right.
I think shot placement is most important: a 9mm to the head is a sure kill, but a 7.62 to the arm might not.

But even If I don't outright kill the target, unloading the mag on my 9mm in a target should have an effect- they will be in no shape to stand there and shoot back.

BTW rifle rounds should penetrate all armor - with the exeption of power armor - no problem. And kill the target if the shot placement was in the vitals.

Oh and I think all humanoids pc & npc should have equal HP... But still be able to be oneshot with the correct shot placement.
Endurance should modify the amount of poorly placed shots you can shrug off before bleeding out (medicine skill anyone?)

I'm glad you bring that up. Criticals. Hmm. Criticals. See, I spent some time recently with a midlevel PC using only the varmint rifle and 9mm pistol and came away with a dicstinct disconnect on my ability to put down enemies. Maybe it's because my RL firearms experience gets in the way, but triple tapping an unarmored mid level human with a 9mm should put them down. Shooting a high velocity military rifle round should put a pretty serious dent in medium sized game. What I found myself doing was reverting to the sneak attack mode to get the overpowered crits. A reminder: sneak head shots without perks does 275% of base damage + critiacl damage, which for most weapons is 550% of base damage. My 16 DAM 9mm Pistol was putting 88 points of damage out in a sneak head shot. It made me wonder this:

Should head shots get that +75%? That seams fair. A head is packed pretty tightly with some really important stuff you usually would like to keep on the inside.
Should sneak criticals get that +100%? This one I'm less sure of. Just what IS a critical shot? Would you agree that the definition would be something like: A shot placed on the target that damages a vital organ greater than a shot placed in the same target area that misses the vital organ? This would be like the difference of getting shot in the thigh, but missing the femoral artery vs. a shot that does hit the femoral artery. That would be a critical hit. If this is the case, would shooting the target from a stealthy place add to the damage of hitting that vital organ, or the chance to hit it in the first place? I can believe a sneak shot being able to line up the target better without rushing and placing the shot in the vital area, but the shot itself doing more damage because they didn't see it coming? So shouldn't a crit be a crit, sneak or not?

How would you feel about:
a) Reducing the multiplier on sneak criticals?
2) Reducing critical damage overall?
other) Doing either of the above, while jacking up the base damage accross the board?

Adjuct question #2, can the sneak critical and headshot multipliers even be changed in the geck? Is the only way to reduce the sneak headshot critical damage to reduce the weapon critical damage, and thereby nerfing regular crits?

-Gunny out.

I think it is challenging enough to kill things at early levels, and it gets somewhat easier at higher levels. Like it should. My character has died at level 1, 2, 4, 6, 10, 14, 22, 26 and once time at level 30.




At early levels, a one shot should rarely kill anything. At higher levels, one shot kills should happen more often, but mainly only head shots as expected. However, I put a 45-70 or a 50 Cal in someone, they better die if the shot hit a torso or head. Assuming of course DT did not get in the way with some of the armors.

I don't want the game to increase difficulty as I get better. I want the game to give me areas that I should not go to until I am ready, but other areas that I struggled through as I was starting out, should be relatively easier when I get back to them. Geckoes at the Goodsprings Source need to be weak little nothings when I am at level 10, but they should challenge me at level 1. Like they do in this game.




Depends on who or what I'm shooting. A Bark Scorpion better not give me any problems once I reach level 5 to 10, but Giant Rad Scorpions still need to give me pause. Again, at level 20, those get easy and then it is Deathclaws that give me pause. I want to bask in some relative omnipotence as I go through the game, but still be humbled by some things or areas I come across.





Exactly, if I am using the right weapon, I should have success. If I am under-equiped, then I need to pay for that mistake, either by blowing through a lot of ammo, or stimpacks, or having to load an earlier save. If I have the right weapon and skills for the situation, that I spent the game developing or acquiring, I better get some easy kills on some enemies. But not all of them.

@ Gunny:

I think the problem with sneak criticals comes from this game being a FPS/RPG hybrid. A sneak critical should have some kind of bonus, because of the controlled environment it comes from, your target doesn't know you are there, so isn't evading you etc... but there's no real way to simulate an increased chance to hit the target outside of VATS, because that is governed by a players skill and dexterity with a controller. So they had to simulate that controlled environment bonus somehow, and they chose to add the damage. What makes the sneak critical so OP is the fact that it's automatic, and to me, it's also a problem, because I have essentially no chance of not getting a sneak critical if I hit something, even in the foot, if I'm hidden. I will always hit the sweet spot. I don't think you can change game mechanics in the GECK, if it's anything like the TES Construction Set, but if you could, I would make it so it's possible to miss a sneak critical, to simulate your nose itching, or the target moves just so as you pull the trigger.

I think making the enimes harder than vhard would be much funner :celebration:

One thing people didn't like in Point Lookout was that enemies had ridiculous amounts of health and that their damage bypassed the damage resistance on the player.
So beefing up their stats isn't always the best solution.

Instead of adding a damage modifier, if that's what you say (and I agree with) was the dev's intent, then they could have made a massive reduction in weapon spread. Take weapon spread to 0 for sneak attacks outside of vats. That could be a significant benifit, especially if you're using a high spread weapon. You *could* still miss the shot still, but only if you, the player, makes the mistake.

For example: Let's say you've got your average crappy spread weapon, say the 12.7mm pistol with it's insane spread of 1.1 (what the heck do they think the barrel on this thing is made of, memory foam?) and let's say you're sucessfully in sneak. Instead of a damage multiplier, your spread goes to 0, representing your ability to slowly take aim at the vital area of your target. Would that make any sense?

I'm not necessarily dead set against sneaks getting instant crits. It's the additional damage that players can abuse to immediately take out enemies much higher than their level/weapon would seem to dictate.

-gunny out.

If you did that, then people would start using any old weapon to snipe with, because they could. It would make the low spread of the sniper rifles kind of useless. Kind of like people hip-firing the sniper rifle pre-patch, only turned on it's head.