I know that the Dark Brotherhood worships the Night Mother and Sithis, but do they have any connection to Mephala? She has spheres of six and secret murder (I think), so I was just assuming that the Dark Brotherhood might have some connection with her.

Thanks guys.

Yes! Absolutely.

http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/brothers_of_darkness.shtml

in morrowind, the dark brotherhood still reveres mephala, since they had a large number of the sanguine threads of the webspinner. in oblivion they became hokey from all of the sithis stuff.

In Morrowind, they seemed to be more or less connected with the worshippers of Mehrunes Dagon, since they also had many of the threads.

Simple. Cyrodil's further from their origin... The Morag Tong. The Morrowind DB is more true to the original beliefs, possibly. Also, Morrowind, as a whole, has more reverence for Mephala, either through Ashlander ancestor worship or Almsivi anticipations of Vivec, than the Cyrodilians.

which would be all fine and dandy except the high rock & hammerfell dark brotherhoods were avid mephala worshippers...and the brotherhood in morrowind were outlanders, even the night mother (except in the tribunal expansion, where they were dunmer, and seemed more like they were employed solely by helseth)


of course, daggerfall was a testing ground for lore.

Perhaps it's just Cyrodil where the worship of Mephala takes a backseat in the DB. It would make sense considering the Morag Tong's assasination of the Akaviri Potentate is what resulted in the schism in the first place. The reverence of Mephala would, by members and associates, be viewed as a direct connection to the Morag Tong.

I highly agree with The Dude. I can see how the Empire would frown upon the worship of Mephala. In OB they say Sithis, but in the back of their minds are saying Mephala. Just my opnion. But I do highly believe the Night Mother IS Mephala.

It's not just the Dark Brotherhood who worship Sithis. The Crimson Scars also did.

Weren't they just an offshoot? But it's throwaway lore if I ever heard any. Like the CoC's patrician mage relatives.

Either way, the Scars seemed pretty serious about worshipping Sithis, even if it made them come off as a bit crazy.

As in, actually religious?

They had a shrine to him in Deepscorn Hollow and Greywyn seemed to think that Sithis spoke to him. And Rowley always said goodbye by saying "Walk always in the Shadow of Sithis." Curiously, they never mentioned the Night Mother, only Sithis.

But either way, I believe that at least one, the Morag Tong mentions executing writs in the name of the Night Mother. This seems to suggest that they refer to Mephala as such.

But for the Dark Brotherhood, it's a mess. First it seemed to refer to the grandmaster of the Dark Brotherhood, in Morrowind, as you had to kill the "Night Mother" who had supposedly come to Vvardenfell. And she was allied with Dagon cultists. But in Oblivion, she's portrayed as a figure of legend and has to share the worship with Sithis.

I can see how they would use the Night Mother and Sithis though. The Empire would NEVER suspect the Dark Brotherhood to affiliated with Morag Tong, if they worship someone the MT would've had killed.... Just my opinion, but I think the Night Mother and Sithis are a ruse to hide the fact that they worship Mephala.

But the Dark Brotherhood isn't exactly a well-liked organization either, and the Morag Tong and the DB are constantly fighting each other. After all, the Morag Tong declared private war on all Dagon cultists because they were harboring Dark Brotherhood members.

True... But doesn't everyone get angry at their little brother, when he steals their cookie. I'm just saying, it's possibility. Perhaps the Tong had gotten angry, and declared war, because the DB, their sister cult, had done something to anger them. And maybe the DB really does worship the NM and Sithis, but it is likely that they were first worshipers of Mephala, and just got so into their cover that they really started to worship NM and Sithis.

And that the Morag Tong was angered by the fact that the DB had begun to worship someone they were originally supposed to hate...... Just my opinion. But I believfe it is a possibility.

Perhaps the DB genuinely reveres Sithis, but Mephala is simply manipulating them by disguising him/herself as the Night Mother. I wouldn't put it past Mephala to pull the wool over an entire brotherhood's eyes.

Ahh... Good man... It could be a possibility. Maybe... But still, I like that....lol...

Then there's the complication of the Night Mother having a tomb. Either way, the Morag Tong dislikes the Dark Brotherhood and see them as honorless murderers-for-hire, while the Dark Brotherhood most likely wants to destroy all competition, the Morag Tong being first on the list.

Fire and Darkness blatantly states that the Night Mother is Mephala.

But that book was located in a long-abandoned Palace escape tunnel. And nowhere in Morrowind is it suggested that the Morag Tong worship or ever worshipped Sithis, and they were a playable faction.

http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/sacred_witness.shtml and http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/brothers_darkness.shtmlseems to suggest that it was a mortal. And then there's the fact that she has a tomb.

Considering the context:



That seems to be a mistake of the author. From the context it should have said "The Dark Brotherhood continues, as we know, to worship Sithis." as the first paragraph discusses the Morag Tong, the Second the Dark Brotherhood. The following lines in the second paragraph also discuss how the Dark Brotherhood is actually is a religious organization worshiping Sithis despite not being considered as such.

edit:

It can also be: "Morag Tong continues, as we know, to worship Mephala." as a counter point to his own idea that they gave up her worship, but that seems to be a bit out of place.

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The answer to who the Night Mother is, Mepahala or a Mortal, is probebly both. Just about the only permutation that can explain the existence of doubts about her background and takes the origins of the Dark Brotherhood in the Mephala worshiping Morag Tong into account.

Sithis to the Morag Tong would be the Padhome of the sermons, a philosophical concept, or possibly an ideal. As MK's fragment says, the Sithis of Cyrodiil is very different from the Padomay of Morrowind.

Forgive me if I seem harsh, but your arguement doesn't pan out because you forgot something very important...the Dark Brotherhood itself is frowned upon. In fact, their existence breaks the laws of the Empire. They're supposed to be hunted and brought to justice.

Why would they give a [censored] about what the Empire thinks about them worhsipping Mephala when worshipping someone else wouldn't make a darn bit of difference?

In my opinon, the only reason there are differences in Morrowind and Oblivion is because the dev team didn't do a good job panning out the DB in Oblivion. That's it. Plain and simple.

They're a secretive organization anyway, so they're hiding the fact that they worship Mephala from themselves?

Frowned upon? They aren't really. They're useful. They don't give a date I don't think, but the book on them says,

"In a remarkable syncroncity at a time when the Arena was a fractured land, the Morag Tong was outlawed throughout the continent. Every sovereign gave the cult's elimination his highest priority. Nothing more was officially heard of them for a hundred years. "

Then of course the organization is off the radar, and they reappear as the Dark Brotherhood in the second era.

"The important distinction between the Dark Brotherhood and the Morag Tong was that the Brotherhood was a business as much as a cult. Rulers and wealthy merchants now used the order as an assassin's guild. The Brotherhood gained the obvious benefits of a profitable enterprise, as well as the secondary benefit that no longer could rulers actively persecute them. They were needed. Even an extremely virtuous leader would be unwise to maltreat the Brotherhood."

We're in business! Then the Colovian Emperor Potentate Savirien-Chorak and every one of his heirs was murdered on one bloody night in Sun's Dawn in 430. We find out later that Savirien-Chorak was the son of Versidue-Shaie, making him at least 450 years old. Interesting to know the snakes can live so long. That is unless they like taking the names of previous rulers without adding numbers behind them, which is inconvenient.

The empire likes them for their secular nature. I think they have a don't ask don't care thing going on. Then again the officials of the empire could just summon Mephala themselves when they need a strike if the Brotherhood is too devoted, which means less money for the Brotherhood.

I'd say the same goes for the Tong and Brotherhood in Morrowind, to build upon your statement. The business of murder and murder accessories isn't something their team on MW and OB was much into I guess.