So, IMHO, DB has been the best faction in the Elders Scrolls lore. And I've always wondered why they never played a bigger role in politics, seeing as they have the potential to be the most feared faction throughout Tamriel. Now, I know that they are decimated and it's possible the only branch of DB remaining is the one in Dawnstar Sanctuary. But think about it, they just killed the Emperor, a feat even the great Aldmeri Dominion couldn't accomplish.

So if the Empire got over their egos and the fact that the Penitus Oculatus is incompetent, they could just hire the Brotherhood to take out the key players in the Dominion, both in Skyrim and Alinor/Summerset Isles. That might put their entire operation in disarray. Let's say that right now it's 4E 205, three years after the Brotherhood properly resurfaced with the Emperor's assassination, the Brotherhood now has grown significantly with the Five Tenets and the Black Hand established and with hordes of new members. With agents in every city along with small sanctuaries and the Jarls silent through coercion. Hell, throw in a couple of Sanctuaries in Hammerfell too.

What's stopping them from slitting the throat of every Thalmor guy in Skyrim? And if pardoned and paid for by the Empire, the ruling body of the Aldmeri Dominion too?

I know it's too far fetched, and the Brotherhood could care less about politics and becoming the new Morag Tong, but its possible, isn't it? The Dark Brotherhood has the potential of becoming the most powerful organization in Tamriel and even having a say in every decision made by the Empire, no?

P.S Am I the only one who thinks they should lose the tight-fitting armor for something different? Say, medium-ish armor for their normal foot soldiers and something a bit more stylish for the assassins. Think Assassin's Creed stylish.

The Brotherhood splintered from the Morag Tong on the principle that they were too involved in politics in the first place. Keep this in mind, the Dark Brotherhood is a bunch of bumbling oafs until the MC comes in and starts hauling ass towards whatever the hell is going on. They also boarderline between two distinct groups, psychopaths who love to kill just for the sake of killing, and professional assassins, who take themselves and their job very seriously, and hold no love for any political gain.

Put simply, its just not how they roll.

What is stopping from the Botherhood from just going ape crazy and slaughtering everyone? There's no money in it. As much as they profess their love of Sithis and w/e (well, to the more crazy cultist types), the Dark Brotherhood ultimately follows the almighty septim. They take no sides in politics, a good thing too, as this means they can be viewed as an asset to any noble, as long as they are paid well.

True, but those two groups are limited to the lower echelons of the Brotherhood ranks. The Black Hand can dabble in politics all they want and for numerous reasons, the foremost being the safety of the Brotherhood. The events preceding Skyrim tell us that the Dark Brotherhood is not safe from external threats as some believe and if the DB was to help the Empire out a few times, it will diminish the most major threat to the DB, because Thalmor does not take them seriously and the only ones strong and concerned enough to do anything about them is the Oculatus. But I agree, you are right. So is Echonite, it's not true Brotherhood style. But still its good business and no matter what the assassins beliefs and intentions are, if the Listener says that a certain Altmer's time is up, he is not going to question that, will he? He'll just kill the elf.

If I were to believe the loading screens, Nords are usually kidnapped and taught a lesson by the Thalmor. This would lead to more than a few friends and families willing to put a price on a certain Thalmor Justiciar's head. And who better to contact if you want swift and sure revenge? That's right, your friendly neighborhood DB Sanctuary. Also factor the fact that there will also be a few assassins who'd like revenge on the Thalmor for one reason or the other.

Plus, I'm more than sure that the Empire will pay well for the assassinations in Alinor.

And Count Indarys of Cheydinhal was threatened and it worked to keep his mouth shut, so it will pretty well on the Jarls as well.

The empire has the Penitus Oculatus as their own homemade group of assassins, spies, and bodyguards. They have no need for the Dark Brotherhood, save for rogue members, like in the MQ. Also, the DB has just started rebuilding. To most people, they're either a legend, their requests go unheard of, or due to many repeated requests that have gone unanswered most people thought they don't exist. Amaund Motierre, for example, was VERY surprised to actually have been contacted. This goes to show that the DB isn't doing so hot.

When infamy spreads, then yeah, expect contracts to the DB to come in to take out high level targets.

I think you're right that the Dark Brotherhood wouldn't care about serving a cause (though they have served King Helseth in the past ... so who knows, if the price is right?) But generally they just look out for themselves and kill as their own little business; secluded from society and practising their cultish beliefs. Perhaps the Morag Tong (if it wasn't disbanded) would be better suited to serving the Empire, seeing as they are accustomed to serving government agendas, they respect honour and justice (so would probably see the logic in helping), and they have been involved in war in the past --- when they killed Reman and his heir in the Four Score War.

Most importantly, the thing with the Dark Brotherhood is that all of their success in Skyrim (and Oblivion for that matter) was all down to that one extremely competent assassin. Without that one assassin, Astrid and the others would not have stood a chance of killing the Emperor imo. BTW I dislike the tight armour as well. I thought the Oblivion design was good, but i hate the skyrim one ...

ASHJBKH2, the Morag Tong wouldn't serve the empire, because they serve the Great Houses of Morrowind. They've never, ever served the empire, only a bunch of petty dunmer nobles of the Great Houses. And that whole 'honor' and 'justice' thing is dunmer honor and justice, which is NOT the same kind of honor you actually think. Yeah, they are a political entity, but they're just tools for dunmer nobles, no one else.

And for the Dark Brotherhood, killing isn't their own little business, it was THEE sole assassin guild, outside of Morrowind. If one wanted someone dead, it had to go to the Dark Brotherhood, or else be targeted for assassination. If you wanted to be an assassin, you had to join the Dark Brotherhood, or else be targeted for assassination. It was a giant Tamriel-wide business, and grew incredibly fat during the chaos of the 2nd era.

That's why I stated in my first post that all that I have proposed will take place 4 years after the events of Skyrim. The DB is back on track, they have a bunch of sanctuaries around in Skyrim in each city and a big HQ somewhere in say, the Labyrinthian. Also a foothold in Hammerfell and add another in Alinor.


Exactly! The price is right this time. And killing is killing, whether a lowly peasant or a Thalmor big shot. Its just another contract.

Oh, then yeah, it's very likely they'd be contracted by a lot of people to assassinate lowly to high level targets. I highly doubt the Thalmor would contract them, however, as it's pretty plain as day they don't like them in the least bit. But from fathers wanting vengeance to Imperial Council members trying to squeak in power by assassinating their rivals most certainly.

So it is possible, right? And then once they get into the business of slaying politicians, it'll be hard for the Black Hand to refrain from pulling strings in the government and thus they'll start to manipulate politicians and this become tangled in the web of politics.

I know what you mean, but I never said the Morag Tong have served the Empire; I meant that due to their role in the politics of Morrowind they would perhaps be better suited to serving it than the DB if they had to. Also, I still think that the Morag Tong's concept of honour and justice is more than just the Dunmeri culture, though that may well be a big part of it. Eno Hlaalu mentions in the MW questline that the tong executes justice on criminals when the law will not, and the MT guy in Skyrim says 'we operated on the side of justice'. They always seemed really proud and haughty to me, and seeing as they don't take sides in the House Wars, I'd say its less that they 'serve' the nobles like mercenaries, but more that the nobles approach the Tong for their services and grant them the respect they deserve as an ancient organisation. Fair enough about the DB, I'll concede to that

No, because they have no interest in politics, other than slaying people for gold. The Dark Brotherhood is a business as it is a cult to Mephala, not a political entity.

I understand. But its hard to stay away from it when you know you have the ability to control it, that's my point.

And can someone tell me what the DB did during the 2nd Era? I mean, what were their policies and any notable events. Also their habits and all.

The book 'Brothers of Darkness' contains one author's look at the DB's roots in the Second Era, and how they were hired by powerful people. Also 'Fire and Darkness' mentions how a man believed to be a Morag Tong agent was killed by the DB in a Nordic village.

In the chaos of the 2nd era, they went around killing for phat lootz of cash. Nothing about policy, other than anyone and everyone hired them, they did their job, and got paid a lot and often. There was no mention of them getting into politics, only that they were rolling in piles and piles of gold. This also relates to your first question.

Thanks, but sadly I've already read both the books. Have you played Daggerfall? If so, tell me, what were they doing then?

Same thing as always, taking contracts to kill people, killing members who have gone rogue, killing freelancers and their employers, and tracking down missing brothers.

Prior to Skyrim, the Dark Brotherhood long had a policy of not assassinating high-ranking political figures, simply because of what happened last time they killed an Emperor: they were hunted down by the Empire as a whole. The Dark Brotherhood does not involve itself in politics because to do so is to attract too much unwanted attention. When you start killing nobles or Thalmor in the name of the Emperor (or any political figure), you get not just one Commander Maro, but hundreds employed by various nobles, each gunning for you. It's bad for business.

No, that was the Morag Tong who were hunted down ruthlessly when they assassinated an emperor, and that was Reman III. The Dark Brotherhood killed the 2nd Potentate and his entire family, which lead to the collapse of the 2nd empire. They then killed Pelagius I, Tiber's son, but no mention of being ruthlessly hunted down.

It's not entirely unwanted, you know. To kill an emperor is to show off your skills. It will encourage more contracts to flow in. But like Hellmouth said, it was the Tong who were hunted down. DB killed the Potentate Savirien Chorak, and that was for the best, I think.

As far as the hundreds of mercenaries hunting the DB, it's impossible. Most nobles would come to rely on the Brotherhood and plus, seeking out brothers and Sanctuaries is no easy task. The Dark Brotherhood takes the hiding and secrecy to seriously to be found out by a bunch of mercenaries. Although the biggest threat to their secrecy is the Thieves Guild, who by 4E 201, know the whereabouts of the DB and are on good terms with them. And the Thieves Guild will out that info for a good enough price.

Tiber was the Listener

[/speculation]

The dark brotherhood are nothing but honor less idiots who would kill their own parents for coin, not to mention they are incredibly incompetent and nothing but murderous psychopaths that couldn't even care if they got caught or not, they'd just fight their way out of it. Sure there are members who aren't complete idiots and actually try to be professional assassins but even they aren't really good, and so what if they killed A emperor, Morag Tong killed several plus the heirs.

The DB wouldn't last against the Thalmor, even through stealth, why? Because they are nothing but idiots who die out all the time, also the Black Hand is nothing but psychos playing secret hidden cultists, if they were so awesomely good they wouldn't have been killed so easily. One last thing, please and I mean it, never compare this group of idiots to the honor based Morag Tong, they are nothing like the Morag Tong who are actually PROFESSIONALS and not deranged psychopaths.

The only reason the DB is feared is because of rumors of the competent assassins and books making them seem like they are demons in human form that can passed through walls and get into heavily guarded areas easily, which is 100% bull, if they didn't have that fear they wouldn't even get contracts.

Seriously DB fan-boys are now just getting annoying.

I agree; Just relax, k?