The Dark Brotherhood. Killing them permanently; Possible? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri May 04, 2012 2:08 am

I tried to make the title short but still somewhat reflect over what I've been thinking about the last ~~days~~ few minutes.

Let's start by painting a scenario:

There's only 1 sanctuary of the dark brotherhood left anywhere. (I'm not talking about a specific one, as in the one in skyrim, I'm talking generally about there only being one of them remaining.)
The sanctuary has 12 members and a few people scattered around tamriel that they know and trust.

Let's not imagine that every single one of them died. All the members and all those that they knew and trusted. Now basically, there is no dark brotherhood. Note: There isn't a random dark brotherhood assassin in the wilderness as a last survivor; they are actually all dead. Poof, gone.

However, what has not disappeared is the night-mother and her corpse. She is still very much "alive". Couldn't she simply speak to someone who isn't part of the brotherhood, to re-build it? Basically starting over?

So to sum it up: Is it or is it not possible to eliminate the dark brotherhood?

» Fri May 04, 2012 5:00 am

Nope. Even if the Night Mother was destroyed, Sithis could just find a new champion.

» Fri May 04, 2012 12:34 am

Nope. Even if the Night Mother was destroyed, Sithis could just find a new champion.

Speaking completely lore-wise that is: Would sithis be able to do that?

» Thu May 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Speaking completely lore-wise that is: Would sithis be able to do that?

Why not? There are plenty of psychotics he could whisper to.

» Fri May 04, 2012 1:34 am

You could kill off the Dark Brotherhood, but secret groups of assassins will always be around. The Night Mother/Mephala will see to that.

» Fri May 04, 2012 4:41 am

Someone crazy enough is bound to come across the old ideas of the dead Brotherhood.

» Fri May 04, 2012 2:25 am

You could kill off the Dark Brotherhood, but secret groups of assassins will always be around. The Night Mother/Mephala will see to that.

Of course, but I was mainly wondering is the dark brotherhood, to the very bones of their existance, could return even after being wiped out to 100%, thanks to the night mother / sithis?

» Thu May 03, 2012 10:11 pm

If the Dark Brotherhood is destroyed, Mephala will just get another bunch of assassins to toy around with. After all, she did grow tired of the Morag Tong, in large part, and same could be said about the DB if they prove to be too boring.

» Fri May 04, 2012 3:03 am

The Night Mother is just a woman that Sithis convinced to kill all 5 of her children in order to be his bride. I'm sure Sithis could start all over again if her corpse was disposed of. It would take time, but what's time when you're immortal..

» Fri May 04, 2012 9:03 am

Of course, but I was mainly wondering is the dark brotherhood, to the very bones of their existance, could return even after being wiped out to 100%, thanks to the night mother / sithis?

Well what is the Dark Brotherhood other than a secret group of assassins? It's just a name. If you wiped out everyone who identified with the name "Dark Brotherhood" and a new assassin's guild formed under a different name, it would still essentially be the Dark Brotherhood. Just a rose by any other name.

But I think the best way to answer your question is simply yes, the Night Mother and/or Sithis would bring about a new Dark Brotherhood, should the current one fall.

» Fri May 04, 2012 5:38 am

The Dark Brotherhood isn't just a group of assassins, it's a cult of Sithis.

» Fri May 04, 2012 3:31 am

The Dark Brotherhood isn't just a group of assassins, it's a cult of Sithis, Post TES:IV.

Fixed?

» Fri May 04, 2012 6:05 am

The Night Mother is just a woman that Sithis convinced to kill all 5 of her children in order to be his bride. I'm sure Sithis could start all over again if her corpse was disposed of. It would take time, but what's time when you're immortal..

Or Mephala.

Opinions vary.

» Fri May 04, 2012 1:27 am

Or Mephala.

Opinions vary.

Evidently not, considering that her corpse and the corpses of her children have been observed.

Fixed?

Not as far as I knew. Why do you say that?

» Fri May 04, 2012 8:16 am

Evidently not, considering that her corpse and the corpses of her children have been observed.

Nothing beyond webspinner's capability. Also, IIRC, that corpse was a skeleton in OB.

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:38 pm

Scapegoats, such as the Brotherhood, Tong, and Reachmen, are vital members of all societies. How convenient history records Mede the victim of an untraceable death cult. Real or no, popular villains die hard.

» Fri May 04, 2012 1:46 am

Or Mephala.

Opinions vary.

You know, perhaps she's connected somehow to the Soul Cairn of the Ideal Masters? Tis would be an interesting way of tying in old lore to the new.

» Fri May 04, 2012 3:14 am

You know, perhaps she's connected somehow to the Soul Cairn of the Ideal Masters? Tis would be an interesting way of tying in old lore to the new.

What is The Eye of Magnus, you ask?

Ebonarm.

» Fri May 04, 2012 7:11 am

What is The Eye of Magnus, you ask?

Ebonarm.

Ius the Animal God is Snow Throat's Stone.

» Thu May 03, 2012 10:06 pm

Ius the Animal God is Snow Throat's Stone.

Dovahkiin is Sai.

» Fri May 04, 2012 8:13 am

Dovahkiin is Sai.

The Staff of Chaos is the Staff of Magnus to Magnus's right eye, which wasn't left behind like his left one, who became Ebonarm.

» Fri May 04, 2012 8:38 am

The Dark Brotherhood is an idea, it will always be around.

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:12 pm

Even if you killed every Dark Brotherhood assassin and burned all their works and evidence of their existence, Mephala likely finds them too much fun. She would probably go back to pretending to be the night mother and tricking psychos into believing Sithis is a person-like entity, and that group would subsume more conventional assassins to re-assume its proper place as an ugly, but vital, function of Tamrielic governance.

» Fri May 04, 2012 12:50 am

improve them or remove them, i found them rather boring in skyrim

plus this whole sithis obsession thing is just tiresome while its obviously mephala toying around with them

» Fri May 04, 2012 11:43 am

I don't understand how people claim that it's "obviously Mephala" when Sithis is referenced as having been in existence before even Lorkhan..

Sithis is the start of the house. Before him was nothing, but the foolish Altmer have names for and revere this nothing. That is because they are lazy slaves. Indeed, from the Sermons, 'stasis asks merely for itself, which is nothing.'
Sithis sundered the nothing and mutated the parts, fashioning from them a myriad of possibilities. These ideas ebbed and flowed and faded away and this is how it should have been.
One idea, however, became jealous and did not want to die; like the stasis, he wanted to last. This was the demon Anui-El, who made friends, and they called themselves the Aedra. They enslaved everything that Sithis had made and created realms of everlasting imperfection. Thus are the Aedra the false gods, that is, illusion.
So Sithis begat Lorkhan and sent him to destroy the universe. Lorkhan! Unstable mutant!
Lorkhan had found the Aedric weakness. While each rebel was, by their nature, immeasurable, they were, through jealously and vanity, also separate from each other. They were also unwilling to go back to the nothing of before. So while they ruled their false dominions, Lorkhan filled the void with a myriad of new ideas. These ideas were legion. Soon it seemed that Lorkhan had a dominion of his own, with slaves and everlasting imperfections, and he seemed, for all the world, like an Aedra. Thus did he present himself as such to the demon Anui-El and the Eight Givers: as a friend.
Go unto the Sharmat Dagoth Ur as a friend.
AE HERMA MORA ALTADOON PADHOME LKHAN AE AI.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/sithis

As the process of subcreation continued, both Anu and Padhome awakened. For to see your antithesis is to finally awaken. Each gave birth to their souls, Auriel and Sithis, and these souls regarded the Aurbis each in their own part, and from this came the etada, the original patterns. These etada eventually congealed.

From Vehk's teachings - http://www.imperial-library.info/content/final-report-trebonius

There are many, many references to him throughout the books talking about creation, gods, etc..