The Dark Brotherhood is ludicrously stupid : V

» Fri May 22, 2015 4:14 am

The Dark Brotherhood, as it is portrayed in Skyrim, is ludicrous and dysfunctional. No equivalent faction

in real life would function, nor does it exist.

The idea of a group of assassins worshipping an evil goddess is ridiculous enough. But the raving lunatics

displayed in the game could never form a cohesive faction that endured for centuries. Cicero, for one, is

particularly stupid and to be honest his presence in the game made me detest the faction. His performance

made me cringe and it completely ruined the entire questline's credibility.

On the flipside, the Thieves Guild in Skyrim was fantastic, and pretty realistic, but it had a vital flaw: they didn't kill people.

What's their motivation?

I see this as sugarcoating. An attempt to differentiate the Thieves Guild from the Dark Brotherhood.

Truthfully, however, what I'd prefer to see is a group of thieves who are motivated by an actual monetary

gain--that is why they kill. Just like in real gangs and criminal organizations.

The Dark Brotherhood is an odd band of misfits. Unfortunately, the Dark Brotherhood requires a great deal

of intelligence and independence, and at that level I do not see a bunch of assassins working well together.

They all stand around and joke about murder, and that is not something that a bunch of psychopaths would do.

It's something a bunch of lunatics would do.

I'd prefer to see a gritty, realistic assassin's guild, with killing for money or at least some kind of pragmatic

reward as a better motive. They can follow a particular god, say Sithis, but fanatical devotion to the Night Mother

does not work as a motive for the player. There is no reward and it never sits right--I see the entire faction as a novelty.

It's just one big joke. Even the Shivering Isles was better by leaps and bounds. At least its premise made sense.

How to improve the DB

Here's how you could improve the game: make the Thieves Guild murder people occasionally. No effing

rule about "no killing." Include some real ethical dilemmas where certain members disapprove of their work or botch jobs.

Have in-faction betrayal and desertion. Have somebody disapprove of the work and then get killed for it.

That kind of gritty realism would make for better drama than "the Night Mother is displeased" in Cicero's

painfully irritating voice. Cicero and the Night Mother belong in a parody about mental patients, not a gang of assassins.

Gangs in real life effing murder people, they rob and steal. The mafia is a well-orgranized, serious organization

with a sense of honor and hierarchy. None of this is shown in the Dark Brotherhood.

The Dark Brotherhood mars the realism of the game and does not teach me anything. It does not show any insight

into human nature, nor does it present any real choice. I cannot identify with ANY of the characters in the Dark Brotherhood

because they are entirely charicatured, completely engineered schizofrenic retards.

Kill the Night Mother

Not only is this guild a total farce, but I fricking hate the Night Mother.

Give me, the player, a MOTIVE for wanting to join this creepy guild ruled by some witch I don't have any

desire to listen to or follow. On multiple occasions, I was wishing I could defy or even kill the Night Mother herself,

and take over the guild. THAT seems like something a REAL psychopath would do. It would also be a lot more fun.

None of my characters, including myself in real life, would EVER follow the Night Mother.

At least make her a Daedric God or something.

Conclusion

Instead of treating the faction like a joke, I'd like to see the Dark Brotherhood go in a different direction next game.

Save the childish humor for every now and then. Or at the very least transform the Thieves Guild so that it mirrors

real underground organizations.

There is no good historical equivalent to the Dark Brotherhood, and for a good reason. There are no guilds of

lunatics who regularly murder people for their motherly deity.

That's because it doesn't exist.

So please, Bethesda. Let me play as a realistic mercenary or assassin.

Not a lunatic.

» Fri May 22, 2015 12:06 am

I agree to an extent that it all felt a bit twee and childish this go around. I particularly loathe Astrid.

» Thu May 21, 2015 6:38 pm

When you have a few moments, look up "Thuggees".

A cult of assassins, who worshipped a goddess by committing murder. After around 600 years or so official forces finally managed to wipe out the cult. Mostly. Sort of. There's no telling for sure, since being a secret society of assassins implies "secrecy".

As far as the Thieves' guild goes; the main reason they are sort of kind of tolerated is because they don't go around killing people and generally police their own members. The major difference between the Thieves and the Camona Tong is that the Thieves don't kill. Back in Morrowind it was stated:

In Oblivion:

This is the Elder Scrolls. Real world situations don't really apply.

» Thu May 21, 2015 8:36 pm

I'm looking into my crystal ball and I foresee this thread not going to well.....

» Thu May 21, 2015 7:25 pm

There was no historical equivalent to the mage's Guild or College of Winterhold either. Because it's fantasy.

I've gotta disagree with you. A cultish guild of assassins is way more exciting and unique than a standard hitman faction. The Dark Brotherhood was the most popular guild in Oblivion, and unlike in Skyrim, the members were actually devoted to Sithis and the Night Mother. In Skyrim what we get is actually a lot closer to what you want. Only two or three of them actuall serve the Night Mother, and the rest are in it for the money and company. What leads to them acting like "lunatics" and swapping stories is the whole 'family of outcasts' mentality they have take on. They all live in a cave together with nothing to do but talk and prepare for the next kill. Is it really surprising that these people with no remorse enjoy sharing their contract stories? If I remember the scene right, most of their laughter was actually directed at one another with little jokes anyway, though it's been a while so I could be wrong.

Anyway, the Dark Brotherhood operates so much more effectively than the competition exactly because of the Night Mother. Remember that it is her who gets them contracts. And I'm not sure what you mean by "no reward" the Brotherhood payoff is literally the most gold in one place in the entire game.

Also, it's worth noting that the Skyrim Thieves guild does kill. They don't like it because it draws the wrong kind of attention, but this isn't Cyrodiil. They are thugs and cutthroats, not Robinhoods. You can wade through a pile of your victims to the end of every assignment and nobody in the Cistern will bat an eye. Hell, your second assignment actually turns out to require dealing with the rat guy under Honeybrew Meadery.

Well yeah, but Shivering Isles was brilliant compared to most things in the series. Not just this.

Astrid? Cicero?

Read "Brothers in Darkness" she is probably an aspect of Mephala.

» Fri May 22, 2015 6:22 am

My character’s dealings with the DB have been limited but unimpressive. Someone is foolish enough to sign their real name to a murder contract. Then their goon is foolish enough to carry said signed contract on their person. Said goon is also foolish enough to start hollering and running up to my character instead of simply sniping with a bow from a safe ambush spot.

My character would like to track down the DB person who signed that contract and kill them, but the game provides no logical connection between that reasonable desire and the quest to do so.

So my character simple consoles herself by taking out the totally incompetent ‘assassins’ who come running up to her whooping and hollering. After all, their buffoonery ensures that they represent no serious threat. They might as well wear a sign on their black pajamas that says ‘Kill me!’

My character is not shy about killing, but she does not do so for pay. Therefore, I can't speak to what it might be like to join them as an assassin.