The Disciplined Imperial Legion? I think not!

Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:01 pm

We all have heard how Disciplined the Imperial legion is, and it seems to have been all but officially stated that they are heavily based on the Roman Legions. So why is it that they never have formation and instead charge the battlefield like a bunch of Germanic warriors seeking duels in disorganized solo combat?

The most reasonable answer is game limitations, but at the same time one would think they would try to find a way to compensate for this. Perhaps a line like "These volunteers from Skyrim may have the spirit, but they lack the training and discipline that make the difference in a legionary. They seldom hold formation even when the Centurion commands them to do otherwise, and almost always seem to revert back to their traditional method of fighting." At least it would be an attempt to explain away why engagements between the Legion and Stormcloaks have all the coordination and teamwork of a multiplayer match between two teams.
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No Name
 
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Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:32 pm

probably because they didnt want to spend too much time on them, or because they simply didnt feel the need to give anyone military formations, or both :confused:
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meghan lock
 
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Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:00 pm

Like you said.
One AI pattern.... that is the problem.
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Nadia Nad
 
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Post » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:53 am

I suppose it might be because making NPCs behave with different tactics is hard.

I imagine that's why every character that wants you dead, regardless of the means they use to kill you, will either charge straight at you, or backpedal away to maintain long range combat.

Also, how would classic Roman Legion formations work with three guys in an open field?
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michael flanigan
 
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Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:51 pm

I think is the AI and pure game mechanics that made impossible for the legion to actually fight like a roman legion.
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Katy Hogben
 
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Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:35 pm

The combat is meant to represent the Nord way of thinking. If I saw a legion of Nords in formation, I would honestly be surprised and say they are really Imperials.
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Yvonne
 
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Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:25 pm

I suppose it might be because making NPCs behave with different tactics is hard.

I imagine that's why every character that wants you dead, regardless of the means they use to kill you, will either charge straight at you, or backpedal away to maintain long range combat.

Also, how would classic Roman Legion formations work with three guys in an open field?

Yeah, taking in account that a century where about 80 men... and we barely see 15 at the same time.
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Marcus Jordan
 
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Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:31 pm

The combat is meant to represent the Nord way of thinking. If I saw a legion of Nords in formation, I would honestly be surprised and say they are really Imperials.

Mhh but the Op is referring to the Imperial Legions.
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Amber Hubbard
 
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Post » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:17 am

As others have said, limitations with AI and the game engine likely make this impossible to do. Perhaps in the next TES game we'll see large-scale battles with strict formations. I think a Testudo (tortoise formation) with magic-resistant shields would do well against Dominion mages ;)
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ILy- Forver
 
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Post » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:43 am

Limited AI and small numbers.

You could always just say those legionaries are poorly trained conscripts.
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lucy chadwick
 
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Post » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:13 am

Mhh but the Op is referring to the Imperial Legions.
A lot of Nords have joined both factions and the Legion can't discpline them all fast enough for the effective formations. And even then I think it would be redundant. Legate Rikke fights like barbarian as well.
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Matt Bee
 
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Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:52 pm

The combat is meant to represent the Nord way of thinking. If I saw a legion of Nords in formation, I would honestly be surprised and say they are really Imperials.

But Nords are just as much apart of the Empire and the composition of its legions as Cyrodil, so it wouldn't make sense to me that they wouldn't get the same training as everyone else. Even Auxiliary units of the later Imperial age revived the same training of a Roman legionary. I suppose the Jarls could be putting together their own forces that fight in the old fashion, but the legion itself should still be retaining the same discipline and training.
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Cheryl Rice
 
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Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:39 pm

I think there should have been better, longer sieges. I mean most sieges were not, "ok, run in there, kill everyone, don."

Also, I've never heard that the Legion was disciplined. When my Legate walks around talking to soldiers, they disrespect him and it is infuriating. Once in every twenty times conversation is selected will they give me the proper respect by addressing me as, "Legate". Other times its, "yes?" or "what do you want?" Which is NOT what you say to a senior officer!!!
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Britta Gronkowski
 
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Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:26 pm

But Nords are just as much apart of the Empire and the composition of its legions as Cyrodil, so it wouldn't make sense to me that they wouldn't get the same training as everyone else. Even Auxiliary units of the later Imperial age revived the same training of a Roman legionary
Legate Rikke has recieved discipline from the Great War and holds formation as well as the new recruits. Hell, Tullius can't even hold a formation correctly.
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Lavender Brown
 
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Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:47 pm

Legate Rikke has recieved discipline from the Great War and holds formation as well as the new recruits. Hell, Tullius can't even hold a formation correctly.

This was my point. There is no attempt to explain the lack of discipline.
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FLYBOYLEAK
 
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Post » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:07 am

If you read the books, like Disaster at Lonith and so on, they operate much in the way of Roman Legions. Phalanx/Shield walls and the lot. But really, it is just a case of AI is told 'You attack this' and it does. It'd be hard to legion tactics and pretty pointless too. Especially as some of the biggest battles you witness are 3v3.

There would be no attempt to describe a lack of discipline because there isn't supposed to be.
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Peetay
 
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Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:21 pm

This was my point. There is no attempt to explain the lack of discipline.
Single AI combat pattern is the only reason. I don't think anyone in the game could explain why a General fights like a new recruit.
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Krista Belle Davis
 
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Post » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:44 am



There would be no attempt to describe a lack of discipline because there isn't supposed to be.

It breaks immersion when a solution could be as simple as two lines.
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Jeff Tingler
 
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Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:04 pm

It breaks immersion when a solution could be as simple as two lines.
Two lines?
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Nick Pryce
 
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Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:54 pm

It breaks immersion when a solution could be as simple as two lines.

Best example. (immersion breaking)

Oh look... a master vampire... equip iron dagger... CHARGE!!! :confused:
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Stay-C
 
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Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:27 pm

I'm also annoyed by the lack of battlemages fighting for the Legion. We see them in Helgen at the start of the game, so why don't we see them taking part in the battles?
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Lexy Corpsey
 
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Post » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:53 pm

It breaks immersion when a solution could be as simple as two lines.

I suppose, but the thing is they aren't supposed to be undisciplined. These are most likely veteran units. (Though, so were the black and tans that went into Ireland and look how that turned out...). Just make it up if you find it so immersion breaking. I've made up half the game to suit my RP.

@Judge Gabranth, you spelt Margaret wrong ;)
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barbara belmonte
 
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Post » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:37 am

I'm also annoyed by the lack of battlemages fighting for the Legion. We see them in Helgen at the start of the game, so why don't we see them taking part in the battles?
Perhaps they all died there? :P
I think it was just to give the nords some advantage... you know, they dont use magic
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Amanda Leis
 
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Post » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:00 am

The combat is meant to represent the Nord way of thinking. If I saw a legion of Nords in formation, I would honestly be surprised and say they are really Imperials.

If Nords are anything like the Danes, shield formations were a norm.
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Jani Eayon
 
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Post » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:12 am

Off-topic: If Bethesda is going to invoke the sense of a dying empire, then https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/531012_4900821644214_829840188_n.jpg
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Charleigh Anderson
 
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