Wisdom for the ages.

Why would it cost you gold to walk from one place to another?

Here's my idea for fast travel:
1) You can only fast travel on roads and to locations on the roads (and ideally roads would be generally safe, like New Vegas, so fast traveling the roads wouldn't be cheating).
2) It would use a system that looks kind of like traveling in Dragon Age, where you can follow your path through the game world.
3) There's a chance you get ambushed by bandits or marauders while fast traveling. This chance basically triples at night, so this gives you incentive to camp or find an inn (unless you want to clear out some bandits of course)

I will very happily pay for fast travel to towns if you just get there. If you have to pay for fast travel and get stopped by bandits, I don't want it and I won't use it. I can quite happily find trouble on my own on foot.

Adjusted slightly. Some balance is needed, and BOTH sides of the issue need to be addressed. It's NOT optional if there are no reasonable alternatives (OB had no acceptable forms of transport other than FT), but getting rid of it will displease a LOT of players (MW could be a pain if you didn't have unlimited time).

The same can be said for other immersion elements: food and sleep requirements, spell or task failure, and "rational" character development. It would be nice if they were "optional", instead of being non-existent or removed completely, like so many other elements of the game from DF and then more from MW (skills, weapon and armor classes, etc.). OB had a lot of fancy new features, but many of them were frustratingly "irrational" (automatic perks where you suddenly took no shield damage, or your armor suddenly became weightless), or took any sense of accomplishment out of the game (going from "can't even try" to "can't fail" in 1 skill point). The "don't use it" argument fails miserably when the silly perk or questionable ability is automatic. On top of that, every character was a spellcaster (EVERYONE got the basic starting spells), regardless of what you wanted.

To the point of every char knowing a basic spell not every one gets to choose what they know.Some people when they were children have walked in on their parents at an uhmm....indelicate moment.You may not want to know it but there it is.

In regards to fast travel I prefer the Ob method as a time saving method.I hope every body gets at least some of what they want.An immersive well planned out travel system for those that like to wander and the Oblivion style for those of us with jobs:)

5/5/1 was clearly the way to go.

Oh, I agree that fast travel is not Roleplaying. I wouldn't get rid of it but I would add more options. Boats and stilt stryders were fantastic because they didn't break immersion. What I'm saying is that in general this thread is advocating the elimination of options where they SHOULD only be advocating the additions of options that seem more realistic.

I think it's important to play however you want in a roleplaying game. I have several characters where it wouldn't make sense for them to be "god-like" but I have others that have become the leader of every guild and faction that is possible because the way I roleplay them it makes a lot of sense for them to be in those positions. It's a matter of creativity and willpower to make them "realistic" but it hasn't made them any less fun to play.

To the readers of this thread I say "Don't advocate the elimination of options because you aren't creative enough or don't have the will to not use the options you don't like because it IS at the expense of others who DO use those options."

Another thing I'd like to add to my previous statement would be that the don't like it, don't use it argument is made completely valid when you add "...because I do use it and I like it plus it's optional."

Balance does not exist in a single player game.

So.. if you purposely design your character so you can use certain effects to its fullest early on in the game (like levitation in Morrowind. Not overpowered because expensive and hard to use.) And if you then go out of your way to find enchantments and level in a certain way..
That is like hitting a tv with a hammer and then saying the tv is too fragile.

No. If you purposely twist and wring things out of proportion you should not then get all complainy about balance.
In a single player game no less.

Sheesh.

Of course balance exists in a single player game. The developers spend years designing, testing, re-designing and re-testing in order to achieve balance.

Often, after the game is released, they find things that don't behave the way they expected. So they include re-balanced information in a patch along with regular fixes.

Can the player intentionally upset that balance? Of course they can. Just buying "The Official Strategy Guide" will do that in my opinion. That's their choice, though.

Doesn't mean the developer won't do his/her best to balance the game for the people making their first play-through and going in without any pre-designed plans to overpower their character.

Honestly, all I'd like to see is the developer consider if a particular function is controversial, and offer a menu switch to turn it on or off. But, I can't always get what I want....until I alter the game myself.

"We'll put a rocket launcher in the game. Don't like it, don't use it"
"The game will have teletubby companions. Don't like it, don't use it"
"The game will have Deathllamas you can ride. Don't like it, don't use it"

It pretends that the only things relevant to your gaming experience are those you are actually (and literally) forced to use, which is nonsense
I'd say having to consistently ignore prominent aspects of the game for reasons outside of the game itself is one of the best ways to ruin your gaming experience. Likewise, the game breaking character in a glaring fashion (for example, to provide player conveniences or to be funny) is another good way to ruin the experience. And there's situations where the playability of a game is affected by not using certain features, without literally making play impossible. None of these literally force the player to do anything, however. It's just something that confronts them in unpleasant ways.

In an open world RPG with the amount of features and options the Elder Scrolls gives you it really wouldn't matter if there was a rocket launcher( see master of destruction magic) or a telletubby (see adoring fan) companion somewhere in it because if you don't want to use them you REALLY don't have to. Even though it may give someone a bad taste it certainly wouldn't to everybody so theres no reason to complain and have it removed based on your personal tastes of what should or shouldn't be possible. People play differently and some people play many different types of characters, some may like those features and others may not but it's ok that they are there due to the fact that the game is HUGE. Now, if we were talking a linear game then I'd be saying the exact opposite. This isn't metroid though and you don't NEED the super jump to get to where you need to go, it's all optional, it's all up to you and you don't need the telletubby to beat the game.

Make the world worth traveling through (random encounters, varied scenery/wandering travellers, etc...) and not using fast travel will become not so damn painful. The real problem is not fast travel, but poor world design. That is why the urge to skip a journey is so damn strong.

Aye. Poor design it is.

Imagine a new game came out made by unknown "ABCsoft" and their RPG featured instantaneous travel, unlearnable spells, redundant horses/houses and quests that led you by the hand like a child... would they be praised? Or criticised for poor game design? What would IGN or Gameinformer say then?

Imagine said company then released a game with the same problems 5 years later... you get the idea.

So, I am almost certain that all of these issues must have been resolved in some way, and made awesome, because how else could Bethesda live with the shame of spending 5 years on a game that is criticised for not being as good as Morrowind?

I've only ever used that argument in regards to fast travel, to which is absolutely holds true. People with no self control shouldn't be trying to limit things for those of us who are capable of seeing the option there and not using it. I've never seen it used about anything unbalancing, though I'm sure it happens.

Ah no- it does not "absolutely hold true" when applied to people pointing out that the combination of in-game travel (Silt Striders, Mage's Guild Guides, Almsivi/Divine Intervention, Mark and Recall) provided exactly the same functionality minus throwing immersion out the window.

Designing and building your character over time to go from a level 1 weakling to be "all that he/she can be" within the parameters of what is possible or not possible in the game (without cheats) is an important part of what makes RPGs fun for lots of players, which includes researching and understanding the mechanics behind the scenes and planning skills and stats accordingly.

If the game play is not balanced (i.e., the right degree of challenge), it becomes extremely boring for most players, especially if it is too easy. If you don't care about balance, just type TGM in the console in Oblivion and see how quickly the game becomes boring.

That said, I can see both sides' perspective. I understand why those who want to use (the morrowind style) fast travel frequently would like to see some sort of balancing negative effect. And I understand how others may view the dev's choice of incorporating Oblivion-style fast travel as not affecting balance because you can choose not to do it.

However, I personally don't care what form of fast travel is included, whether it is spells/silt striders/map makers/whatever, because I enjoy the experience of walking everywhere in-game. I do believe if Bethesda does not include "map marker" fast travel with no gold cost, it will piss off a majority of the people who buy the game.

I really don't see the idea behind adding in Siltstriders into the game. I keep saying keep fast travel and make it where you can only fast travel to cities or villages. You get your siltstrider limitations without spending days (real world days) having to back track to a siltstrider to be able to travel. I mean, say someone in some ruin a descent distance from a major gives you a quest. That quest takes you to a place on the other side of Skyrim. So if you had siltstriders, you have about a 5 min travel time to the city, have to find a siltstrider which would probably take another 2 min in a huge city, then you fast travel to the nearest village to the ruin you need to go to which is like say, another 10 min walk to the ruin. So now I have to go to the ruin, spend 30+ min exploring it and finish the quest then I have to make the 10 min walk back to the village, then take the siltstrider to the city and then make the 5 min walk back to the quest giver.

With Fast travel where you can only go to cities or villages, you get the quest, then you notice you have never been to that village before, so you fast travel to the nearest city, which time passes because of fast travel. So now your in the city at night so you have to get a torch out and ride in the direction of the village which is a 10 min ride. When you get there, you unlock the fast travel option for future travels. Then you take another 10 min walk to the ruins, do your 30 min dungeon dive and then you come out and fast travel to the destination city and then make the 5 min walk back to the quest giver. That's approximately 15 min less time then the siltstrider. All that does is save you time of having to back track, which is needless because you already know which way you came so there isn't any exploration. Now, if players want immersion then bethesda can add in a time bar like they had for sleeping or waiting for when you fast travel, that way it doesn't seem like your "teleporting"

I don't see what immersion is lost. When I fast travel, I imagine myself walking to the place, because that is what my character is doing. I don't see how actual teleporting like intervention and recall is more immersive than how people accuse fast travel of being teleporting....

Ill go ahead and save them the trouble.... they keep sayin 'if ur walkin, why dont u get attacked?'

i had to do 5/5/5 for the last 6 levels or so. maybe i did something wrong (to get everything to 100)

And when you're walking to this place, you're able to completely avoid all possible encounters, regardless of your condition? How do you handle spell effects that should have worn off mid-trip? Not that Silt Striders and boats were perfect, but they were a bit more believable (eg, it wouldn't matter if your feather potion ran out mid-trip, because you're sitting down, and you're helped out).


Because they make sense in the game world. You don't have to pretend you're walking and able to avoid all encounters, because you really are teleporting. You also couldn't go anywhere you wanted, but only where those spells determine you to go. You also have to keep an eye on your magicka and scrolls (though again, not that Morrowind was perfect; any non-low-level character shouldn't have a problem keeping stocked on scrolls and magicka restore potions). There was a lot more to it than just opening a map and clicking where to go.

if theyre going to put instant fast travel in skyrim, it should at least have a disadvantage such as damaging your fatigue once youve arrived at your destination, just like the disadvantage of using a silt strider, you have to pay gold

I keep seeing them say that, but I keep saying for all you know, you did get attacked by some wildlife and you killed it and moved on. Also, I've walked along roads in Cyrodiil before between places and even into the woods towards a cave and I've gone without getting attacked before. I mean seriously, I've also said "Why don't you get attacked by Cliff Racers when your riding a siltstrider?" A siltstrider definitely won't scare them, since they've attacked dragons before. Also, it would make even more sense that you won't get attacked while fast traveling in Skyrim seeing as how not everything is aggressive to you.



Or we can just have fast travel to cities and villages so that you have to travel to actual caves/ruins in a giant world. I've said before, if Oblivion was so much easier because of fast travel, then why does Oblivion have the same play time as Morrowind? I mean, think if Oblivion had siltstrider-like fast travel, that game would take 3-4 times longer and I guarantee people on these forums would be complaining it took too long to walk around. It didn't make the game easier, it had the same play time, it's just that too many people don't like change.

I mean, I despised Siltstriders, it annoyed me that I had to walk half way across Vvardenfell half the time because it would just be quicker to walk to the destination than walk back to town and take a siltstrider to the nearest town to my destination and walk from there. What good does a fast travel system do if half the time it is worthless?

As far as fast travel goes I only use it when I've beaten a quest and have to get back to where the quest was given within three game days. everything along the path has already been taken care of by me and nothing has respawned so it would just be a pointless jog back to where I need to be. Other than that I don't use it unless I have to get to work or something and I don't have time.