The dont want it dont use it argument.

Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:15 pm

Exactly *invisible high five*



Mark and Recall, Almsivi Intervention, Divine intervention, MG teleport, and Silt Striders were all like fast travel, The difference being that you don't simply hit the start button and click on a section of the map, you actually need to use those spells/transportation modes to get anywhere.

Fast travel is just yet ANOTHER way or replacing gameplay and player effort with boring menus.


Yes, since opening my item menu and setting Almsivi Intervention to my spell slot was so riveting.....

Solution Take morrowind methods and make a well designed game instead of throwing in an unimmersive system because of the poor capacities of the designers. they should have made a map that using slit strider you can then get anyway within 2-10 minutes of run


Maybe if the game actually had the siltstrider start off walking across the land it would be more immersive than fast travel. In reality, siltstriders and fast travel are the same thing. The difference is that fast travel saves people 40 extra hours of just backtracking, the same route they had walked before. It's not any way of exploring more, it's just unneeded walking. Like I said above, Oblivion and Morrowind had the same play time and Oblivion had fast travel. Just imagine having Morrowind's fast travel system, it would be insane play times, like 3-4 times more. Morrowind's system does NOT work in games like Oblivion, it's just too much time to go looking for a siltstrider. Just make fast travel let you go to cities and villages only and you get a nice balance between Morrowind's system and Oblivion's.
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Sophie Louise Edge
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:18 am

Yes, since opening my item menu and setting Almsivi Intervention to my spell slot was so riveting.....


No, but you had to purchase the spell and train to use it. You also need to be in the general vicinity of the correct temple or fort.

It makes the difference between putting effort into the game, and letting the game play itself for you.
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Nicole Coucopoulos
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:42 am

I will clarify my point on fast travel but we should get back on subject about something else than fast travel.

-Morrowind Fast travel methods : Thumbs up most people agree its good
-Oblivion Fast Travel most people agree its not good:

Oblivion pro: you dont have to walk alot
Morrowind con: you have to walk alot

Solution Take morrowind methods and make a well designed game instead of throwing in an unimmersive system because of the poor capacities of the designers. they should have made a map that using slit strider you can then get anyway within 2-10 minutes of run

Heres an idea make a game thats not completely based on fast travel.... FO3 did a great job with the fast travel since u had to explore to unlock more places to fast travel to, plus the landscape was much more interestin than the generic landscape in oblivion.
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Anna Beattie
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:09 pm

Yes, since opening my item menu and setting Almsivi Intervention to my spell slot was so riveting.....

are you realy pretending not to understand his point? what he means is that they scrapped all those immersive ways of traveling that made the game alive and more logical and traded it for a weird teleport that makes time go faster and moves you anywhere in the world


@Riddike huh in oblivion too you had to walk to a place first before being able to travel there except for cities. and it didnt make it more immersive nor did it make it less badly designed
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Lory Da Costa
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:44 pm

....MG teleport, and Silt Striders were all like fast travel, The difference being that you don't simply hit the start button and click on a section of the map, you actually need to use those spells/transportation modes to get anywhere.

Fast travel is just yet ANOTHER way or replacing gameplay and player effort with boring menus.

No you don't just simple hit the start button you press another boring menu, for those ones, and sit there being jumped to your location just the same. I agree there should be more mechanics but you never said that till now and no one has disagreed with that, would you have proffered fast travel in OB have it own fancy name, hmmm yes I think the idea was you 'walked' there... On and again it looses you no game play unless you use it, for any of the fast travels, how ever flavourfull it is still replacing the in game action, it's not like this is fable and they've removed the parts of the game between the citys and forced you to teleport everywhere. On and maybe teleport spell are as cheap and tacky as walking as fast travel to some?! It's all a matter of opinion any way....
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Yonah
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:10 am

are you realy pretending not to understand his point? what he means is that they scrapped all those immersive ways of traveling that made the game alive and more logical and traded it for a weird teleport that makes time go faster and moves you anywhere in the world

the question is are YOU pretending not to understant his point? time moves forward as u 'walk' to another place

and huh in FO3 most ppl actually went and found places to explore since most places would be unique, in oblivion everythin was the same which caused exploration to be dull.
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flora
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:12 am

why do you even say that? no one complained about the fact that they put perks in skyrim here.


sorry, I must have mis-read what you wrote
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Kathryn Medows
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:52 pm

No you don't just simple hit the start button you press another boring menu and sit there being jumped to your location. I agree there should be more mechanics but you never said that till now and no one has disagreed with that, would you have proffered fast travel in OB have it own fancy name, hmmm yes I think the idea was you 'walked' there... On and one again it looses you no game play unless you use it, any for of fast travel how ever flavourfull is still replacing the in game action, it's not like this is fable and they've removed the parts of the game between the citys and forced you to teleport everywhere. On and maybe tele port spell are as cheap and tacky as walking as fast travel to some?! It's all a matter of option any way....



but they remove all the diversity in fast travel that there was before

and yea.... they almost force you to fast travel because it hurts to see the boring landscape when you walk.... trees....trees....trees....a rock....trees. Oblivion landscape was damn boring and poorly made.

@Ofnir don't be sorry theres no problem.
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Luna Lovegood
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:55 pm

are you realy pretending not to understand his point? what he means is that they scrapped all those immersive ways of traveling that made the game alive and more logical and traded it for a weird teleport that makes time go faster and moves you anywhere in the world


@Riddike huh in oblivion too you had to walk to a place first before being able to travel there except for cities. and it didnt make it more immersive nor did it make it less badly designed


So it's not okay to have a "teleport that makes time speed up" (even though it makes sense because your walking to the place) but it's okay to have countless teleports that take you to a place without a skip in time at all. I completely understand.... It's not more immersive, your just tricking yourself into thinking it is more immersive when they are the same thing except fast travel isn't this over the top, fantastical ability to teleport without using a portal, which if it was the case then, why don't they just teleport entire armies :ohmy:

What is with this "diversity in fast travel"? Why does it matter which way you can fast travel as long as your fast traveling? I just think teleporting is ridiculous but the roleplaying of walking somewhere and time passing while you do it is more realistic. I really don't want to have to clutter my spellbook with teleport spells when I can just "teleport" with one option.
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FirDaus LOVe farhana
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:26 pm

I personally don't like modding the game if it's absolutely necessary. If I wanted to play my own game, I'd just make a mod and play that, but having control over the game mechanics is not fun, it makes the game predictable and mundane.

The reason I use fast travel and Olbivion is because there was no point in walking anywhere, if you've seen once expanse of land you've seen everything. I think Skyrim is looking pretty good so far in the art department, though, so maybe that won't be a problem. If they put interesting things by roads then players will walk on them.

Thats fair enough I know some people don't like modding the game, I however love mods. I like roaming about the wilderness some of it may look a bit repetative granted but it's all a matter of immersion in imagination and what you like the most. there are many things I could point at about a game that I don't like or stuff I would rather from previous games ect but that is just because everyone tastes are slightly different. Just run with what the devs have done and try to enjoy the best of the game that you like.
All they can do is try to create the best game they can, a fair few brilliant ideas implemented into games like OB or Fo are from the modding community
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Alycia Leann grace
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:46 pm

No problem!

I finally got mine today, and quickly read every last detail, and the whole "Monsters don't always attack you" thing was one of the best surprises I found!

I am hopeing to get mine by the end of this week and do the exact same, and over the course of these next ten months I will reread that thing like crazy! It is also great news on the monsters!
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Rude_Bitch_420
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:40 am

So it's not okay to have a "teleport that makes time speed up" (even though it makes sense because your walking to the place) but it's okay to have countless teleports that take you to a place without a skip in time at all. I completely understand.... It's not more immersive, your just tricking yourself into thinking it is more immersive when they are the same thing except fast travel isn't this over the top, fantastical ability to teleport without using a portal, which if it was the case then, why don't they just teleport entire armies :ohmy:

What is with this "diversity in fast travel"? Why does it matter which way you can fast travel as long as your fast traveling? I just think teleporting is ridiculous but the roleplaying of walking somewhere and time passing while you do it is more realistic. I really don't want to have to clutter my spellbook with teleport spells when I can just "teleport" with one option.


Just as a game is tricking you into feeling like you are having an adventure or experience, even though you're sitting on your computer chair or couch. Congratulations, you discovered the key to good game design! immersion; tricking the player into feeling like they are performing actions when they are really not. If I wanted the game to play itself for me I'd just go watch a movie.
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Jaylene Brower
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:53 pm

but they remove all the diversity in fast travel that there was before

and yea.... they almost force you to fast travel because it hurts to see the boring landscape when you walk.... trees....trees....trees....a rock....trees. Oblivion landscape was damn boring and poorly made.

@Ofnir don't be sorry theres no problem.

So the route of the problem is not fast travel it is that you didn't like OB?! So is the don't like don't use it the problem or just generally not getting wat you want?? And as for the post above dude you make non points your in circles stop it.
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casey macmillan
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:48 am

So the route of the problem is not fast travel it is that you didn't like OB?! So is the don't like don't use it the problem or just generally not getting wat you want??


The issue is that they implemented fast travel and apparently figured "well, there's no point making roads interesting anymore" and likewise there was no reason not to use fast travel in Oblivion.
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Jennifer Rose
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:10 pm

I heard some people mention "you can maybe allow fast travel, but have it toggle-able". well, in Oblivion, they had it! if you just waled, it was "off" and when you opened the map and clicked somewhere, it ws "on"!

nah I know it's a really bad argument. I just wanted to make fun of it lol.
honestly, there are so many ways to see the fast-travel situation, that I don't think any argument will ever solve it.
the most obvious thing being that OB had really repetitive landscapes so you didn't really care to see it all, so you hit fast-travel. I think in Skyrim it's gona be partly settled though, as the environments are more varied. that's just my take on it though

edit : ninja'd!
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Anna Krzyzanowska
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:18 pm

So it's not okay to have a "teleport that makes time speed up" (even though it makes sense because your walking to the place) but it's okay to have countless teleports that take you to a place without a skip in time at all. I completely understand.... It's not more immersive, your just tricking yourself into thinking it is more immersive when they are the same thing except fast travel isn't this over the top, fantastical ability to teleport without using a portal, which if it was the case then, why don't they just teleport entire armies :ohmy:

What is with this "diversity in fast travel"? Why does it matter which way you can fast travel as long as your fast traveling? I just think teleporting is ridiculous but the roleplaying of walking somewhere and time passing while you do it is more realistic. I really don't want to have to clutter my spellbook with teleport spells when I can just "teleport" with one option.

You only see the pratical aspect of fast travel for your arguments. but if people want to teleport since according to the lore its feasible they shouldnt be forced to use the actual fast travel system and pretend to teleport they should have the spells to do it. or the slit strider or the boat or the caravan or whatever. like the system i suggested a little earlier, with better map desing people who dont want to walk would be satisfied but people who are not satisfied with the actual system where you magically dont encounter any enemies on your path but if you sleep one hour you might encounter one.
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Star Dunkels Macmillan
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:00 pm

In Morrowind, there were two things that I really loved about quests. The journey there, and the journey back. The journey there, I'd start out from my home base. I'd take the silt strider, mage teleport, boat, or some combination to get to the nearest city. Then, I'd slog through the wilderness. The journey back was especially hard, because I was low on potions, had broken weapons, and was loaded with loot.

A couple things ruined this in OB. One is fast travel. Now, I could have just not used it, but because it was in, there were no more mage teleports, ships, or other transports. BUT we had horses, so I could have just enjoyed the ride. Except I had to dismount every 3 mins to fight a wolf or cougar. Finally, I would have walked, but the similar scenery and identical dungeons along the way made this incredibly tedious.

Hope ALL these problems are fixed, so I can go on a REAL quest. I mean, Odysseus didn't fast travel to Troy and back.
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Juan Cerda
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:39 am

The issue is that they implemented fast travel and apparently figured "well, there's no point making roads interesting anymore" and likewise there was no reason not to use fast travel in Oblivion.

Oh of course the old they didn't both were to lazy argument you reckon time and resources are as flippant as your fancy teleport spell?! Yer I'm sure they couldntbe ****ed to put the million thing that could have been better In to the game.
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Mimi BC
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:18 pm

The issue is that they implemented fast travel and apparently figured "well, there's no point making roads interesting anymore" and likewise there was no reason not to use fast travel in Oblivion.

Then whats the point of this thread anymore, since obviously lookin at their track record (FO3) they seemed to have worked on that part of their games. and with the new engine im sure theyll keep us busy walkin on the roads exploring
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Brittany Abner
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:00 am

Yes, since opening my item menu and setting Almsivi Intervention to my spell slot was so riveting.....



Like I said above, Oblivion and Morrowind had the same play time and Oblivion had fast travel. Just imagine having Morrowind's fast travel system, it would be insane play times, like 3-4 times more. Morrowind's system does NOT work in games like Oblivion, it's just too much time to go looking for a siltstrider. Just make fast travel let you go to cities and villages only and you get a nice balance between Morrowind's system and Oblivion's.


Where are you getting this "same play time" crap from?
The issue people have with oblivions fast travel is that it feels like teleporting, yeah sure time goes by, but why dont you get attacked by bandits fast traveling from bravil to the jerral mountains? Why does a 1 second feather spell last the whole days travel time? How can your character get back to town with only an inch left of his life after dungeon diving just because he looked at his map and 'poofed' into town?

When you take a boat/carriage/silt strider you have to interact with a character, find out where he's going, give him gold and follow whatever route he happens to be taking, it feels much more organic then opening your map, pointing to dungeon and bam, "i walked here".
Honestly i dont know why the devs dont just have travel services implemented in game then add instant fast travel as well, there are many who want in game travel options and it wouldnt take much to add it to the game.
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saharen beauty
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:48 pm

I just hope they didn't design the game world with fast travel in mind. I'd like to see more interesting and artistically riveting stuff nearby roads. between the god-awful leveling system and fast travel in oblivion, there was really no reason at all to go exploring. Every dungeon had the same stuff in it and every road had the same object palettes next to it.
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barbara belmonte
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:10 pm

Fast travel does not bother me, what bothers me is poor quest design where you have to go across the ENTIRE map several times per quest for a large portion of the total quests available. That gets really monotonous and boring.
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Lou
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:08 am

Just as a game is tricking you into feeling like you are having an adventure or experience, even though you're sitting on your computer chair or couch. Congratulations, you discovered the key to good game design! immersion; tricking the player into feeling like they are performing actions when they are really not. If I wanted the game to play itself for me I'd just go watch a movie.


Yes, since somehow fast travel, which is the exact same thing as siltstriders, allows for the game to play itself. Makes perfect sense. Siltstriders are truly unrealistic. Oh look the same siltstrider is there even though I just teleported back after being dropped off by that siltstrider in Balmora. That is the fastest Siltstrider ever! I said that Oblivion's fast travel was a bit much allowing you to fast travel to anywhere you have ever been before but Siltstriders are unrealistic and a waste of time that it doesn't need to be. Like I said, if fast travel allows you to only travel to villages and cities, it will be siltstriders limitations without the needless backtracking like in Morrowind. But I disagree with you guys because frankly, fast travel in Oblivion makes more sense than Siltstriders always being there.

Where are you getting this "same play time" crap from?
The issue people have with oblivions fast travel is that it feels like teleporting, yeah sure time goes by, but why dont you get attacked by bandits fast traveling from bravil to the jerral mountains? Why does a 1 second feather spell last the whole days travel time? How can your character get back to town with only an inch left of his life after dungeon diving just because he looked at his map and 'poofed' into town?


The same play time crap is from playing all of Oblivion's content and Morrowind's content and they were relatively the same play time, Oblivion had 34 min than Morrowind's. And look Oblivion had fast travel, OMG! Also, where do you get the fact that it doesn't feel like teleporting when using a siltstrider if you think it is teleporting with fast travel? It's the SAME thing. Also, when has a spell effect ever lasted a fast travel? When you fast travel with a feather effect, it will wear off, I don't know what version of Oblivion your playing. As for the inch of life left, if I can't fast travel with an inch of health left after dungeon diving, which means my character walks back to town, then how do you walk back to town in Morrowind? By your logic, while walking back to town you would fall to the ground and die from blood loss. Your argument is flawed. Fast travel is doing the same thing as you would in Morrowind, walking back from doing something, but without having to walk back the exact way you came, which offers no more exploring value and nothing but a boring walk back.
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Alessandra Botham
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:20 pm

So the route of the problem is not fast travel it is that you didn't like OB?! So is the don't like don't use it the problem or just generally not getting wat you want?? And as for the post above dude you make non points your in circles stop it.

no the problem is that all other options were removed because they , like I already said, poorly made the map. and for people who roleplayed in morrowind its a huge step backwards for all those options to disapear.

Like i said already a well made map with diversity of means of transport would satisfy both side because when you use travel everything would be at 2-10 minutes walk. (you dont get to walk for an hour like in morrowind but you get to have all those immersive means of transport that makes the game feel more real like an RPG should be)
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mimi_lys
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:15 am

Fast travel does not bother me, what bothers me is poor quest design where you have to go across the ENTIRE map several times per quest for a large portion of the total quests available. That gets really monotonous and boring.


Yea, Anvil Fighter's Guild tells you to go kill some dude in Cheydinhal. Cheydinhal Fighter's Guild tells you to kill some dude in Bravil, wtf?

Not to bring up MW again, but each FG (and Mage's Guild) had 6-12 local quests. You'd finish one branch, and head over to the next city. You could do it in the middle too, if there was a quest from one guild that you didn't want to do right then. Oblivion seemed like it had maybe 12-20 quests for all the cities combined.
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Sammygirl500
 
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