Is the Dragon-Born the reincarnation of Tiber Septim? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:26 pm

Hjalti is the real Tiber. Talos is the mix between the three entities mentioned within the heresy.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:49 pm

Talos and Arctus were the Enantiomorph + requisite betrayal. That begot their Mantella, crux of Transcendence, drive core of Numidium. The Mantella was the divine heart of Tiber, their oversoul. All of these men are avatars of Lorkhan. Visitations to Mundus, through various means of entry. These avatars of Lorkhan are the same, except in scale (or power, if you will). Talos was the general Hjalti Early-Beard, united with Ysmir the Graywind. Ysmir was his totem-breath, until Arctus, the Underking, assassinated him (a plot not his own). In the assassination, Talos walked away, but his Voice, Ysmir, left him. Very clear, right?

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:21 pm

Hjalti is the real Tiber. Talos is the mix between the three entities mentioned within the heresy.

Wouldn't it be funny to find out that Talos was never a God at all and the people only hailed him as a God because of his dragon abilities?

Also.. what does that entail for our player of Skyrim?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:43 am

After he captures the Imperil Throne, Septim finds the initial administration of a fully united Cyrodiil a time-consuming task. He sends the Underking to deal with Imperial expansion into Skyrim and High Rock. Ysmir, mindful that it might seem as if Tiber Septim is in two places at once, works behind the scenes. This period of levelheaded statesmanship and diplomacy, this sudden silence, heretofore unknown in the roaring tales of Talosian conquest, are explained away later. (The assassination story is embroidered -- now it is popularly Talos' own throat that was cut.)

NOw how about that. Ysmir, that is, Whulfharth, is mindful about making sure that it seems that Tiber Septim is not in multiple places at once. A question, Soezerius, why would people confuse Whulfharth and Hjalti Early-Beard? Why does TIber Septim come from both Alcaire and Atmora? Perhaps because Whulfharth and Hjalti are both confused for Tiber Septim.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:21 am

Wouldn't it be funny to find out that Talos was never a God at all and the people only hailed him as a God because of his dragon abilities?

But in TES, getting lots of people to hail you as a god really does make you one, so he wins either way.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:39 am

Talos and Arctus were the Enantiomorph + requisite betrayal. That begot their Mantella, crux of Transcendence, drive core of Numidium. The Mantella was the divine heart of Tiber, their oversoul. All of these men are avatars of Lorkhan. Visitations to Mundus, through various means of entry. These avatars of Lorkhan are the same, except in scale (or power, if you will). Talos was the general Hjalti Early-Beard, united with Ysmir the Graywind. Ysmir was his totem-breath, until Arctus, the Underking, assassinated him (a plot not his own). In the assassination, Talos walked away, but his Voice, Ysmir, left him. Very clear, right?

Good Lord. That is insanity. But why is Lorkhan, who is supposed to be evil, trying to unify and rebuild the Empire?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:34 am

NOw how about that. Ysmir, that is, Whulfharth, is mindful about making sure that it seems that Tiber Septim is not in multiple places at once. A question, Soezerius, why would people confuse Whulfharth and Hjalti Early-Beard? Why does TIber Septim come from both Alcaire and Atmora? Perhaps because Whulfharth and Hjalti are both confused for Tiber Septim.

Would now be a bad time to toss out the obligatory CHIM/ timeline re-write reference?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:35 am

Good Lord. That is insanity. But why is Lorkhan, who is supposed to be evil, trying to unify and rebuild the Empire?

Lorkhan is evil? Maybe according to the Altmer. To the Nords, Shor is the champion of mankind.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:27 pm

NOw how about that. Ysmir, that is, Whulfharth, is mindful about making sure that it seems that Tiber Septim is not in multiple places at once. A question, Soezerius, why would people confuse Whulfharth and Hjalti Early-Beard? Why does TIber Septim come from both Alcaire and Atmora? Perhaps because Whulfharth and Hjalti are both confused for Tiber Septim.

I guess none of this is made clear to the player. It begs the question- where does Tiber Septim really come from and why is his identity getting mixed up with multiple people? Is it because they are all dragon born and can use the same abilities from the same blood line or some such, and for some reason want to keep it under wraps? Or are they all, like someone else said, instruments/avatars of Lorkhan?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:05 am

I guess none of this is made clear to the player. It begs the question- where does Tiber Septim really come from and why is his identity getting mixed up with multiple people? Is it because they are all dragon born and can use the same abilities from the same blood line or some such, and for some reason want to keep it under wraps? Or are they all, like someone else said, instruments/avatars of Lorkhan?

You might as well forget the dragonborn/dragonblood stuff all together.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:55 am

Good Lord. That is insanity. But why is Lorkhan, who is supposed to be evil, trying to unify and rebuild the Empire?

The Empire is pure evil.

Perhaps he wants to reclaim his Empire from the influence of Auriel and his Thalmor.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:16 am

Lorkhan is evil? Maybe according to the Altmer. To the Nords, Shor is the champion of mankind.

What Tiber Septim is trying to acheive suddenly seems very similar to what Dagoth Ur wanted to acheive- and Dagoth Ur drew from the power of Lorkhan's heart. Which was the major reason I always thought he was dead- because of the events in Morrowind. I guess it might explain it if Wulf/Tiber Septim/Lorkhan is there to aid you in defeating him though. Maybe?

Edit: Because Dagoth Ur wanted to unite all Tamriel under his rule, and it would be a theocracy- where they would worship the mechanical God.

Seems a bit similar to The Empire wanting to unite everything and worship Tiber Septim as Talos.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:37 am

Maybe the Amulet of Kings is actually the soul gem that Tiber Septim used to trap the Underking.

Actually, it seems less like Tiber Septim is Lorkhan after reading the end of that article. It seems more like he used the power of a Dragon Born, captured in a soul gem. He may not have even been one himself.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:49 am

Maybe the Amulet of Kings is actually the soul gem that Tiber Septim used to trap the Underking.

No. The Amulet of Kings is a different beast. The "soul gem" in question is the Mantella, the crux of transcendence. It made it's final appeareance in TES II: Daggerfall.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:42 am

*snip*
NVM.

Oh I see.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:51 am

One thing is for sure.. we will probably learn more about Ysmir in Skyrim. Funny to think about since in Oblivion the Septim line was venerated quite a lot.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:53 am

I believe it was said that there are(were) multiple bloodlines and that you are the last from your bloodline. It has been made clear that this is not the Septim bloodline.

EDIT:
NEVERMIND! Read the other posts!

Well, even though it's not with blood, how could one become dragonborn?

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:52 pm

The entire line of the emperors were bragonborns.

However you don't need to be from some special line to be a dragonborn, you can be chosen to be one.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:04 pm

But didn't it start with Tiber?
So sometime along that bloodline one of the off-springs slept with a Khajiit or all the other 9 races and passed the dragon-born blood onto other races?

No, Tiber Septim's line died before it really began and died with his son or grandson one until it was taken over by his brothers line. Theirs no such thing as "Dragonborn blood" because being Dragonborn isn't a hereditary thing.

edit: Candlejack, I don't think thats right at all. The line was not Dragonborn.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:30 am

The entire line of the emperors were bragonborns.

However you don't need to be from some special line to be a dragonborn, you can be chosen to be one.

Ok. But how can you be chosen? and by who?
Can it be Shor choosing Skyrim's main character (you) to be born as a Dragonborn to try and stop Alduin? or maybe Mehrunes Dagon?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:32 am

No, Tiber Septim's line died before it really began and died with his son or grandson one until it was taken over by his brothers line. Theirs no such thing as "Dragonborn blood" because being Dragonborn isn't a hereditary thing.

edit: Candlejack, I don't think thats right at all. The line was not Dragonborn.

I'm pretty sure they said the entire line was dragonborn.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:48 pm

The Septims weren't born Dragonborn - they became Dragonborn by playing the role. Dragonborn-ness isn't a hereditary thing.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:55 am

I'm pretty sure they said the entire line was dragonborn.

Im certain the people of Tamriel are led to believe that, but the lore points to it being more or less just politicking to create a 'divine right' to rule than it being hard fact. The line has been broken too many times for them being Dragonborn to have any sway.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:15 am

I'm pretty sure they said the entire line was dragonborn.

I had thought they said this too. But it seems like you never know with TES. They like to cover up information with what people *think* is the truth, but isn't..

Even so, I am currently uncertain as to which side is true, or if there is something very fishy going on with the Septims.

To add one more thought: If the Septims are not really dragon-born then where did Tiber get the idea of 'dragon-borns' originally from? Was it from Wulfharth? Also- frankly, Uriel Septim didn't seem like he was that bad of a guy when you meet him in Oblivion.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:59 am

The Septims weren't born Dragonborn - they became Dragonborn by playing the role. Dragonborn-ness isn't a hereditary thing.

Ok. But how can you be chosen? and by who?
Can it be Shor choosing Skyrim's main character (you) to be born as a Dragonborn to try and stop Alduin? or maybe Mehrunes Dagon?