Is the Dragon-Born the reincarnation of Tiber Septim? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:02 am

The Septims weren't born Dragonborn - they became Dragonborn by playing the role. Dragonborn-ness isn't a hereditary thing.

By playing the role? what exactly is the role of the Dragonborn? By acting like they were chosen by the gods?

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:34 pm

By playing the role? what exactly is the role of the Dragonborn?

In the case of the Septims, they were fulfilling the role of the recipients of the divine covenant with Akatosh by lighting the Dragonfires, wearing the Amulet of Kings, and being all emperor-y. I'm not quite comfortable guessing the general role/purpose/origin of the Dragonborn so close to Skyrim.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:00 pm

In the case of the Septims, they were fulfilling the role of the recipients of the divine covenant with Akatosh by lighting the Dragonfires, wearing the Amulet of Kings, and being all emperor-y. I'm not quite comfortable guessing the general role/purpose/origin of the Dragonborn so close to Skyrim.

To... Destroy Skyrim!!!!

I'm kidding of course...

But you will enjoy *some* emperor-like attention since the blades, though apparantly quite few, will be helping you out.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:38 am

In the case of the Septims, they were fulfilling the role of the recipients of the divine covenant with Akatosh by lighting the Dragonfires, wearing the Amulet of Kings, and being all emperor-y. I'm not quite comfortable guessing the general role/purpose/origin of the Dragonborn so close to Skyrim.

Makes sense I guess, though I honestly find it infinitely more interesting had they all been a bunch of fakes :celebration:

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:28 pm

Im certain the people of Tamriel are led to believe that, but the lore points to it being more or less just politicking to create a 'divine right' to rule than it being hard fact. The line has been broken too many times for them being Dragonborn to have any sway.

The Septum line wasn't broken.

From 2E854 till 3E246 a descendant of Tiber or his borhter sat on the throne and then in 3E246 one a, still blood related though somewhat distant cousin, took the throne and continued until 3E433 when Matrin died.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:48 pm

The Septum line wasn't broken.

From 2E854 till 3E246 a direct descendant of Tiber sat on the throne and then in 3E246 one a, still blood related though somewhat distant cousin, took the throne and continued until 3E433 when Matrin died.

At one point an Emperors Dunmer wife was Empress. Yes, it has been broken.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:32 pm

Makes sense I guess, though I honestly find it infinitely more interesting had they all been a bunch of fakes :celebration:

Like I said, we've not yet played Skyrim, so we don't yet know all the details. The source I'm quoting from has a pro-Imperial bias, and may very well be justifying the emperors' right to rule by making them all Dragonborn-via-mantling. Even if they became Dragonborn, I do not see them as being in the same mythological category as someone like the player character or Tiber, who were natural Dragonborn. They are, in other words, the ultimate case of fake-it-'till-you-make-it.

From 2E854 till 3E246 a direct descendant of Tiber sat on the throne and then in 3E246 one a, still blood related though somewhat distant cousin, took the throne and continued until 3E433 when Matrin died.

http://imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-brief-history-empire-1

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:53 am

At one point an Emperors Dunmer wife was Empress. Yes, it has been broken.

and then her son Cassynder, a blood descendant of the Septums took over.

thus maintaining the line

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:21 pm

and then her son Cassynder, a blood descendant of the Septums took over.

thus maintaining the line

The line was still broke, a Septim was not on the throne which was a prerequisit to Imperial [censored], and like the Lady said, Tibers line ended before it really began.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:42 pm

The line was still broke, a Septim was not on the throne which was a prerequisit to Imperial [censored], and like the Lady said, Tibers line ended before it really began.

Which is why I made note of that on my past post.

Also when I say the line was broken i meant there was no living blood heir and someone just took up the name Septum.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:06 am

And you say Sheogorath is only the Lord of the Shivering Isles?

*scoffs* Why, my lad, the entire Tamrielic Area is Sheogorath's province, and the Gods his pawns! Can you not see the madness everywhere?!?!!

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:17 am

Still doesn't mean that Dragonborn is hereditary, unless you're saying that Tiber's father was Dragonborn, too? Where does that stop, then? If all Dragonborn are descendants of Alessia, half of the world is Dragonborn by now.

Besides, Skyrim confirms that Dragonborn isn't hereditary (can't link, obviously, but you can find it if you look).

It's SeptIm, btw. A septUm is a whole different thing.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:14 am

[nevermind]

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:59 am

Still doesn't mean that Dragonborn is hereditary, unless you're saying that Tiber's father was Dragonborn, too? Where does that stop, then? If all Dragonborn are descendants of Alessia, half of the world is Dragonborn by now.

Besides, Skyrim confirms that Dragonborn isn't hereditary (can't link, obviously, but you can find it if you look).

It's SeptIm, btw. A septUm is a whole different thing.

Though, I might comment here that the Imperials of Cyrodiil think that each Septim is dragonborn by blood- so wouldn't it make sense if they are confused into believing that you, as a dragonborn, should be emperor?

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:05 pm

Though, I might comment here that the Imperials of Cyrodiil think that each Septim is dragonborn by blood- so wouldn't it make sense if they are confused into believing that you, as a dragonborn, should be emperor?

You as in the Dovakin? How would you prove it?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:24 am

You as in the Dovakin? How would you prove it?

Well, I suppose you would do a dragon shout or some such. Though, the acknowlegment of you as the Dovakin by the greybeards should be enough.

Tiber Septim was told that he would rule Tamriel, by the Greybeards. So being acknowleged as Dovakin by them might be reminiscent of that.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:37 pm

Being Dragonborn alone was only enough for the Nords to accept Talos.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:46 am

Though, I might comment here that the Imperials of Cyrodiil think that each Septim is dragonborn by blood- so wouldn't it make sense if they are confused into believing that you, as a dragonborn, should be emperor?

I doubt that dragon blood alone is enough for them to support you. If you're dragonborn, save the world from destruction, and then go over and conquer Cyrodiil like every good emperor before you, they'd probably let you have the throne (at least for a while). The biggest roadblock to you becoming emperor, at least in my mind, is gameplay, as well as the fact that they can't canonize any one player.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:54 pm

I doubt that dragon blood alone is enough for them to support you. If you're dragonborn, save the world from destruction, and then go over and conquer Cyrodiil like every good emperor before you, they'd probably let you have the throne (at least for a while). The biggest roadblock to you becoming emperor, at least in my mind, is gameplay, as well as the fact that they can't canonize any one player.

And people won't let a Dunmer or a Bosmer or a Khajiit become an emperor :down:

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:37 am

they could let you be emperor if the next game is set ages later and there was some giant war that destroyed most of the documents from your time and thus no one knows who was the emperor at the time.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:22 pm

And people won't let a Dunmer or a Bosmer or a Khajiit become an emperor :down:

There was a Dunmeri empress. A rather good one.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:47 pm

they could let you be emperor if the next game is set ages later and there was some giant war that destroyed most of the documents from your time and thus no one knows who was the emperor at the time.

From someone who was arguing that Daggerfall's solution to multiple endings was a boring cop out? Personally, I'd be fine with Beth canonizing a particular hero, but, as I said, the biggest issue is gameplay. An emperor doesn't run around raiding caves and helping villagers.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:50 pm

From someone who was arguing that Daggerfall's solution to multiple endings was a boring cop out? Personally, I'd be fine with Beth canonizing a particular hero, but, as I said, the biggest issue is gameplay. An emperor doesn't run around raiding caves and helping villagers.

A Deus Ex Machina is a cop-out, My idea however is no Deus Ex Machina.

Also you became the lord of the shivering isles and still ran around in caves in Oblivion.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:51 pm

Which strikes me as a fitting hobby for a Madgod.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:18 am

Running around in caves really isnt crazy.